http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=123715225
Printable View
Man,
That stamp looks so fresh.
For that kinda $4... I'd need plenty of good close ups.
Be nice to hear Marcus chime in here.
Charlie-painter777
Meant,
For that kinda of $$
Charlie
I agree. That is too much $$$ for the lack of detailed pictures. And I don't like the looks of the stock markings or the bolt marking. It looks like an ABC humper.
I think the buyer really needs much better pictures to be sure about it. I would like to see the full left side of the stock to start with and close ups of the acceptence stamps. I also question the Inland barrel. A 1-43 barrel is a bit late for IP and a bit early for S'G'.Underwood,Rock-Ola and Buffalo Arms barrels were the common ones used and found on IP and early S'G' carbines.
Not that I am a super genius, but that stock doesn't look close in color to my original S'G' and IP, and it is so clean I don't think cartouches would last after that much refinishing. Pictures are vague too
I mean there is not a ding dent crease nothing in that stock and there is some trigger group hanging out.
is that a stake mark right front of flip sight?
Shows no wear in the slide groove.
No pic of the barrel band.
No pic of the nose of the stock to see if there was any use of a later type band.
You could go on and on.
More pics...More pics...
Still don't like that boxed S'G' and CC....just look so FRESH !!
Seller is in Holland, Michigan....about 2 hr drive from here.
Not far from where IP and S'G' were built.
Maybe this was just found in an attic of the old Steering Gear plant.
Not even a trace of dust from over 60 years of storage....LOL
Charlie-painter777
Charlie-painter777
Charlie, I just saw a batch of your new stocks on ebay.
eBay Seller: charlieh6636: Collectibles items on eBay.com
Where are you coming up with so many stocks? (Inquiring minds want to know)
Hello Harlan,
I have a few connections for wood. Some guys offer them to me to support a pending sale they might have. I could almost be happy enough just collecting stocks....almost!
But most of the stocks and hand guards I've been getting are coming from a retired ole time dealer in the North West. Years ago he had bought a few thousand GI surplus rifles. Many had come from Canada. He's up in years now, but use to travel to the big western shows just selling the parts. Back in his day these stocks really didn't fetch much. So all those stocks were piled up in his garage, shed and a lean to. Many were stored in the crates he received the rifles in. The broken ones he used to burn in his small shops wood stove. It's sorta a friend of his that keeps an eye on him and helps him out that passes the wood onto me. So it's a joint venture....he gets them to me and I do all the work :-) Most have to be re-finished, because the old finishes are about worn out. Most are just dry from not being oiled for so many years. Some needing repair. I have a pile of those....really a stock pile ;-) Also most will have US and Korean rack number paint jobs on them. I have about 18 stocks plus hand guards coming in about every other week. I have been listed them on Ebay after getting them re-finished. The metal is usually still on them. I just clean and list the recoil plates and usually end up refinishing the butt plates. I can pull a butt plate and fill the bench with sand. Then you start wondering.....What country that sand may have come from? I really enjoy re-finishing them. The nice thing is if the CC and markings haven't been sanded off for the rack number to be applied....I can be sure that I have a stock with REAL markings. It can be sad to see a CC or boxed letters screwed up from the sanding of the stock to apply the rack number, but some come out pretty clear. I never know what I'll find under the old paint. Makes it feel like Xmas morning.
Like I said I've been using Ebay....but getting tired of their constant charges and pulling listings. The part about Ebay that ticks me off the worse is when you sell the item. Pay Pal pulls their cut from the total sale. Which includes what you have figured in for the shipping.
Here's a picture of some I just finished.
From top to bottom are:
IR-IP I cut to Lo-wood....On Auction
NPM type III..................On Auction
NPM type III....I kept...Needs repairs
Q-RMC type III...............On Auction
RMC-B I cut to Lo-wood...sold
B-RMC I cut to Lo-Wood...sold
JL-B IBM type III.............On Auction
RMC Type III...................sold
RMC Type III...................On Auction
Inland Type III Long Channel..On Auction
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC02463-1.jpg
I plan to look into the for sales board here when I get more familiar with this site. Hope to have more ready in a couple weeks.
Here is a before pic of a Type II Q-RMC stock, that I put on my QHMC 4,751,969,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/QRMC4-1.jpg
Here is an after picture of that Q-RMC type II,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01944-1.jpg
This one is one of my favorites, Even though I don't own a Winchester early enough for it. It had been wiped by the previous guy with paint stripper before I got it....A Winchester I cut...still Hi-wood....
Before pic,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...chester1-1.jpg
Winchester I cut...
After pics,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01846-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01828-1.jpg
And this I think is really cool. These are after stripping pics of 2 Type II RSG Hi-woods. You can see the green number stamps in the slide channel,
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC00777-1.jpg
When I learn the ropes here. I'd like to start listing extra stocks, hand guards etc here. I'm tired of $$$ supporting Ebay and their anti gun views.
Regards
Charlie-painter777
It looks like you better start learning the that Quartermaster thing. It says you can only have two ads at one time but you could list several in one ad (?)
I hate Ebay too and quit selling months ago.
Harlan,
I'll have to figure something out.....their coming in faster than I can refinish them. Might consider GB.
Charlie-painter777
Save your $5,000. For that kind of money the pictures should be crystal clear on all the important parts.
When I see poor pictures on high priced guns, I just look away.
Mr Painter Are we talking about the same gun ?
This reciver shows wear in the slide groove.
there is a photo of the barrel band.
there is a photo of the nose of the stock to see if there was any use of a later type band. and it looks like there is only a type 1 band mark . yep it is a clean gun and the parts alone are worth the price right ?
einstine,
The first picture looks as though there was no wear on the receivers slide rail on the right side. Could just be the picture. As stated for this kind of $$ a guy would have to request better pics. Maybe the current high bidder has some, I don't know. I now see the pic of the stock's nose and use of the early band, I missed that. I take full responsibility of making a too early/not fully informed statement about that. Yes it is clean....seems to clean. might have never seen a practice range for all I know.
I do how ever question that barrel for originality.
The value of the parts... I couldn't say... again without better pics.
If the bidder is happy, I guess that's all that counts. I think I seen that the seller is offering a 3 day inspection (?). You have to give him credit for that.
Regards
Charlie-painter777
I understand that collector's place value on items based on their rarity and desirability. I understand that IP's are the rarest of carbines and therefore a 'correct' IP (even if this were one) is worth alot of cash. I can understand paying $5000 for Audie Murphy's carbine, the one that Winston Churchill was once photographed using, the one documented as being at the Iwo flag raising or one used by the 101st for the D-Day invasion. I would even pay $7,000 for a carbine, .45 ACP or Garand if I found documentation in the the National Archives that the weapon had been issued or used by my father during WWII (I am sure we all would). But what I do not understand is this... why would someone pay $5,000 for a carbine with little specific, individual history, which has no displayed accountability or documentation of where it has been for 60 years (it appeared out of thin air), and which will obviously not be used as a shooter... Am I so new at this that I am missing some important point?????
:sos:
Charlie, you got a sweet deal there. Please let me know if you ever start teaching how to do that with the stocks. What a skill! :thup:
Only two names in the bidding list. Reeks of shill bidding.
Also, price is way too high.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Karen
OFC
It dose take two bidders to set a price. I have seen Irwin Pedersens go for higher prices than this just a few years ago. Some have sold for all most $7000. The photos show all most all the parts and markings except the trigger, firing pin, and recoil plate. Those parts markings are listed in his description. I bet this gun could go a little higher in price yet.
Einstein. Are you looking at the secound IP on Gunbroker?
I guess we will find out how much they are really worth tomorrow after I go to my "special meeting" at work and pack my stuff up,and come home early listing all my toys on GB.
I sincerely hope that isn't what your meeting is about Curt.
Prayers sent.
well the first one has more IP parts than the 2nd one, there would be some value there . the 2nd one is nice however he lacks a good write up about the parts on the gun. and there is not a 3 day return policy. I would bet that one goes for $5000 as well.
hey you guys know how gun prices are going! we are haveing change guys
Just looking at the Pedersen's again the 2nd one has a lot more S'G' parts. I don't know all the prices on IP parts but if you wanted to find a IP slide and IP dogleg hammer and a IP trigger housing that would add up fast to a chunk of cash. still think it will go for $5000
good luck on that work meeting thing Curt!
IP marked carbines are far from the rarest USGI carbines. That common misconception is one reason they sell for what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tired Retired
How many would you say Brian? 35,000 or so? Compared to any of the lineouts, they seem pretty darn common.
That's about right.
Everyone I know has at least one IP in their collection but how many have a spring tube Rock-Ola or Inland? Not to mention the line out variants.
Well, I knew when I wrote the comments that I would probably have to defend or explain them. I guess the best way to explain my whole view point is not in the detail of my comment, but in the thought as a whole. I realize that I am no where near as knowledgeable about Carbine collection as alot of people - I probably won't ever get that smart. But I do have a growing appreciation for Carbine collection as a whole. These weapons were a major part of our nation's effort to preserve our way of life. These weapons served to arm protect many of the servicemen who fought in that war and even a few subsequent actions. It was part of my father's generation - I only wished that I had asked him before he passed if he was ever issued or used a carbine during WWII. I do appreciate the uniqueness and importance of the carbine's development, production and employment over the years.
That said, my original comments should be taken as a whole thought, not a debate for rarity. Yes, when I look at the references, there are alot of different categories of carbines which are rarer than IP. Yes, IP being a "holy grail" is a common misconception among people. Yes, there are REAL unique pieces out there which are worth ALOT of money, not only from a collector's standpoint, but from a national history standpoint also. But two things that seems to be becoming more and more common 1) is the "make correct" by replacing 90% of the parts of a given carbine and 2) the use of misleading, counterfeit and fake parts in an attempt to defraud honest collectors.
In the first situation, TO ME replacing 90% of parts to "make correct" is almost like manufacturing a weapon out of thin air. Ok, if it was in a museum or it was a bring back that grandpa has had for 60 years, then its REAL and should be worth alot of money because it is genuine. Replace one or two parts, ok, that’s genuine enough, but people ethically should be up front about "hey, I replaced the sear with a...". A weapon which is 90% "made correct" is a collection of parts, it is not a genuine weapon as it has existed over 60 years. So one question that runs through my mind is “well, where have you been all of these years????” Just MY opinion....
In the second situation, fake parts or counterfeiting is fraud and IS ILLEGAL. It is defrauding someone of money by mislead the value of an object. In my (and the law's) opinion, counterfeiters should be prosecuted. We prosecute people that counterfeit famous paintings... whats' the difference.
I am not knowledgeable enough to ever judge the value of any Carbine. I just ask questions - thats what I did with my "I dont get it" comment. What carbine is, based on its rarity (not historical significance) is worth $5,000 or $7,000 or $10,000??? My question is not meant to be sarcastic. I do not know. And I am more than willing and eager to learn from the knowledgeable people on this board.
Even if you own a IP and you see one that is in better condition it is nice to up grade by buying the nicer one and selling your old one. we have all done that
You're in an enviable crowd. I can remember the days (years) of wanting an IP. But carbines were a bit harder to find when I started collecting.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianQ
Eventually I ended up with two IP's. Gave my high number to my best man.
Sort of neat, the one I kept now has a close relative up for auction on the CMP website...serial number is only 27 away from mine.
Tired Retired,
There was no reason for you to defend your post. The reason I quoted your post was without the quote my post would have been out of context. My intent was to help clear up a common misconception that IP carbines are the rarest of carbines. Which is it simply is not the case, although most people still believe they are. Another common misconception is the IP contract was cancelled and given to Saginaw Gear because IP carbines couldn’t pass the acceptance test. The reason cited in the cancellation documents listed management problems. Personally I think the Ordnance Department had an ulterior motive. They had already decided to cancel the IP contract before the first scheduled delivery date of March 1943. Most likely IP would not have met the first delivery deadline but neither did any of the other carbine manufacturers yet their contracts were not cancelled abruptly. IP’s contract was written as a cost plus contract, meaning no matter how much it cost IP to produce a carbine Ordnance was required to pay the actual production cost plus a pre-negotiated amount per carbine. All the other contracts were fixed price contracts. Ordnance needed a way out of what could have been a high cost per carbine contract and they found an excuse.
Wow, that is alot of detailed history that I have not ran across yet. Guess 1940's military contracting was as full of "skeletons in closets" as today's DoD contracts. Guess $800 hammers is not just a modern thing! I don't have an IP yet, but I will remember that if I manage to get luck enough to afford one in the future. Til then, I guess I will just be in search of the perfect Inland or Underwood. LOL.. thanks for the extra info! :beerchug:
Made it through anopther week OK. The toys can stay for now.
Curt, congrats... I am sure that you are going to enjoy this weekend like none of us will.... keep the faith and hang in there.
Ed,
I agree. With only a very few (1%?) original; as built carbines in existence, and then a rare manufacturer at that, who's kidding who buying one you can't even inspect from an internet auction site?
As often quoted by the CAF:
65 year old WARBIRDS are a bunch of scrounged parts flying in close formation.
I think almost all "original" firearms on auction sites are frauds. JMO
I tried to contact rampant - the buyer of this carbine- but gunbroker would not let me. I have some paperwork on this carbine. If anyone here knows who the buyer is have him contact me. I have info and the afore mentioned paperwork.
i can't find any info for the secound IP how did it end? Also the third one that popped up with the boxed IP and the $5K buy it now.
Tired Retired, I got the meaning of you post. The IP IS the rarest of the 11 single prime contractors and has even more value because supposedly none passed inspection or so the story goes. Is it the rarest carbine? No, but it sure would be nice to have one. Not any $5000.00 worth for that one anyway.
I seem to remember that serial number being sold on GB as a bare receiver about a year ago. Does this ring a bell with anyone else???
Which serial number are you meaning? is it the 1775599? I need to get hold of rampant.
1775599 is the one. Am I on the right track Piercesaw? For some reason I remember this serial number as being sold as a bare receiver by someone in NV.
No this carbine was sort of in the configuration as sold but came from ohio at one time- about 5 years ago. My father owned this then I. To rampant-the buyer- I have found some dcm paper work from this. Contact me if you see this. Mike
Haven't been contacted by Rampant- maybe when he recieved carbine he sent it back. The members here that questioned the barrel were right that is was replaced and the stock cartouch wasn't there before. I can thrash the dcm paper work.