303-30 no4 in 303 brit using 30 cal barrel

Hello Everyone,

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to discuss this in. Thought I'd try here as it would get the attention of the people who might have done this.

I just wanted to know if anyone here has done a rebarrel on a Lee Enfield with a 30cal barrel? Meaning in .303 British but being able to use .30 cal projectiles? .303 pills are pretty expensive here in Oz and .30 projectiles in bulk are a lot cheaper. I have read in places of people ordering a custom 303 reamer with a 30 cal neck/throat.

Any opinions?

I've heard of people doing it, but why go to all the trouble when you could just rebarrel to 7.62 and be done with it. Sure the mag will cost you a couple/few hundred dollars, but then you're right for ages.

Yes: been there, done that.

There was an article on such conversions in an ancient copy of, I think, "Guns and Ammo".

Not a huge challenge if you are competent with machinery and can cough up for the specialised reamer.

By "specialised" I mean getting a "custom" reamer that has the correctly tapered throat and a "special" pilot to run into the smaller diameter lands than one specifically for a "proper" .303" / .311" tube.

If you are serious, the trick is to buy a ".303" reamer and have it factory fitted with interchangeable (.299" / .302") pilots and specify that the throating flutes are to work with the smaller diameter bore and groove specs.

Most of the "big" reamer makers will do whatever you fancy, for a price. Try "Pacific Tool and Gauge" for a start.

I have such a "hybrid" rifle and it cheerfully digests 155gn Palmas (and the Australian BJDs) as well as 168gn SMKs and 180Gn Hornady spire points, but it is a 1:10" twist. If you stick with bullets no longer than the Sierra 168gn Match Kings, you can get away with 1:12", but only just. Getting the heavier bullet up to sufficient velocity to achieve the spin rate required for stability means "decent" loads in the .303 case: "gallery" loads with the long bullets are right out.. Stick with the 155gn Palma or, if you MUST go "heavy", less "streamlined" bullets, like the 180gn Hornady spire point.

Longer bullets / "seating out" are requisite unless you want to risk wrecking a mag "adjusting" the lips to work with short bullets.

Alternately, try a "conversion" to .30-40 Krag, 7 x 57 Rimmed, 6.5 x 54 Dutch / Romanian, all of which are tapered cases with similar (ish) overall length and rim diameter. 7 x 57R was quite popular in British-made Lee Enfield sporters in the early 20th Century.

Alternately, the world needs a barrel maker and bullet maker to deliver clones of the original goodies at reasonable prices.....AND the Lee Enfield punters to cough up for such things in reasonable quantities.

How much is your No.4 worth now?
How much will it be worth as an oddball in a wildcat calibre? (A great deal less, I imagine)
How many bullets could you buy for the total cost of the conversion (including the loss in value of the rifle) ?
How many shots per annum will you make with the altered rifle?
Have you looked for bullets for the Mosin-Nagant?

If you want the rifle for a collection, don't do it.
(The alteration will totally devalue it)
If you want to participate in military rifle competitions, don't do it
(It will probably be disqualified because of the alteration)
If you want an accurate target rifle, don't do it
(Spend your money on a rifle made as a target rifle, not a milsurp)

In a word, why FUBAR a No. 4 just because you can't get cheapo bullets?

I wouldn't worry toooo much Desky. While I'm no ammo re-loader and confess to never having reloaded a single round in my life, there's already a thread running here of how to expand bullets from cheapo X dia to cheapo Y dia. And looking at the mechanics of it from my mechanical engineering bent, this looks like it's going to be JUST the dia that you need.

i have had great results with reloads my dad made up using 150grain 30 cal demilled heads in a few smle as they mic out at 310 to 312 if you want load i will send

I did a 30cal No4 and a SMLE back in the 90's and had great success with loads and accuracy. the problem with getting one done is the reamer. you need to get a 303 reamer and have it reground for the new neck and shoulder also getting loading dies is impossible. you need a neck sizer to do the neck after running it through a standard sizer die with the expander removed.

If you get a reamer made, you can also make your own dies. Size die anyway. The seat isn't going to be so particular.

The only reason I did my .30-.303 rifle was that the "donor" rifle was already a "bitza" sporter with a rubbish barrel that had been originally picked up as "spares". I had some "pre-loved" woodwork in "The Shed" and, like the "streaker's defence", "it seemed like a good idea at the time, your Worship".

It shoots reasonably well and has served to train a couple of the offspring in the fine art of "Lee Enfielding".

"Converting" to 7.62 was a possibility, as I have a couple of the barrels, however, magazines are as rare as rocking-horse excrement around here.

Besides which, would not a "private" conversion to 7.62 NATO also be "not in the spirit of the game"?

Try finding a K-98 or 03 Springfield with its "original" barrel and check out the prices.

To me, the "spirit" is in the shooting of the types of rifles and in matches of a bygone era. As the rifles become "uneconomical to repair" or suffer metallurgical degradation, or the supply of "authentic" ammo dries up, where do we go? "F" Class? Already play that; big bucks, exotic toys and a whole different game.

If all of this "bullet-fiddling" works out, I MIGHT drag out the "family" SMLE........hang on, it's been a "range rifle" and has a "non-factory-fitted" "H" barrel and funny target sights. Oddly enough, in this configuration it was "legal" under the old "Defence Act" provisions that used to govern full-bore rifle shooting. Go figure......

Hi, in the past NZ shooters of the 303 often got fitted a "tight" aftermarket barrel as it improved accuracy, or so they believed. I have one, a Lithgow H barrel thats shoots 155gr 308w nossler competiton projectiles very well, half the cost of .311 matchkings. Shoots the 308 Hornady FMJs well as well.
They also say that the boat tail bullets cause excessive barrel and in particular throat wear, hence I shoot barnual flat base 310 FMJs mostly as im 600yds and less.

To setup the 303 cartridge for the 308w nossler I use the Lee 303 neck die with a Lee 308w neck die pin, the pin can be bought seperately for all of $10NZ. Do be cautious on loads however as this is a wildcat. Start low and take your time and a lot of care. Occasionallyy I have to full resize using the Lee full size die and then I use the above to get the neck back to where I want it.

And for those with an even greater "sense of adventure", I give you............

.30-06 Mosin Nagant - the Bannerman Conversion - YouTube

Wow thanks for the replies! Given me a fair bit to think about. Thanks for the good info Bruce in Oz!

Just to clarify things up a bit. No I won't be bastardising a perfectly good, matching numbered No4 rifle, so please settle down. I love Lee Enfields as much as everyone else hereThere are plenty of sporterized rifles out there and parts for no4 rifles also seem to be pretty common right now. I would have enough bits to make one now minus the action, which I am sure I won't have trouble finding. It would probably resurrect a rifle more than anything and would be also good to shoot a rifle while not wearing out an original barrel.

The cost of doing the project? I am in pretty good with a gunsmith who will do the barrel fitting work for cheap as time permits as he owes me a few favours. I would try and recycle a target rifle barrel to start with and invest in a new barrel if it goes well.

The cost of .303 projectiles in Australia is why I am considering the project. Some people who live elsewhere don't seem to comprehend how much the difference in price for reloading components are in other parts of the world. $50 per 100 plus postage on top of that would be about the cheapest I could get for Hornady 174gn projectiles. SMK 174gn projectiles are a lot more, when available..... There are bulk packs of Sierra 155gn Match Kings that work out to be just under $30 per 100 and Nosler Custom Comp in bulk even less.

For the Service Rifle comps, which I am very active in, I will still stick to my Swede M96 or 1903A3 for serious competiton. I love my Lee Enfields. They are my favourite rifle!!!!! I think it would be a good project try and make shooting Lee Enfields a bit cheaper for myself.

desky85, you answered a few questions I was going to ask.... as its a "I,ve nearly got enough bits to make a rifle" then the world is your oyster, ever thought of 7.62 x 39 ? as you mention recycling a target barrel, its something I,m a big believer in if your looking at a cheap plinker, .30 M1 carbine works well also..... I use the .30 110 grn RN for this and for downloading my ammo for other 7.62mm rifles and they all thrive on it.....

Existing FL and neck size dies will work as is. I have measured both .303 and .308 dies and they both vary from .329 to .327 dia. in the neck area. I have measured over 100 dies of all calibers from .250 Savage up to .50-70 US Govt and none of them are so large they would not handle a .003 undersize bullet with just a smaller expander. Most sizing dies will work fine with a bullet .007 undersize. The Mosin-Nagant shooters shooting the 7.62X54R and the GEW88 shooters shooting the 8X57I have been doing the very same thing for more than a half century. If anything the neck of a #4 rifle chamber is a bit on the tight side (it has less clearance) compared to most other military rifles.
There is no problem with the function of the seating die for most uses but a better fit would make for less runout of seated bullets. But again the Mosin and GEW88 shooters live with it.