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I have a British Brunswick bayonet advertised in the WTB forum on another website here in the US and a potential buyer in Britain has expressed a desire to buy it. Are there any British laws in effect that will cause trouble for the buyer? Any hold ups that will delay or stop delivery? I do have another potential buyer here in the US that will take it if the gentleman in Britain can not receive it. TIA.
It says bayonets can be shipped. I'd read the fine print.
Offensive weapons: import controls - Detailed guidance - GOV.UK
This is the part that would give me pause:
"If you are caught with any of the above without a legitimate reason and are suspected of planning to use it violently, the weapon can be seized and the police will be alerted."
Who determines what the legitimate reason is? Collecting is obviously a legitimate reason for us but the customs inspector?
Probably why most people avoid shipping outside the US.
I bought a USMC bolo from New York on ebay and had no problem. If you declare it as a historic antique, which it is you should have no problems. I think France gets a bit arsey with Bayonets.
Shouldn't be a problem - a bayonet is legal to possess in the UK. Whether you do something illegal with it when it gets here is a separate issue. I've never had a problem importing a bayonet from the US to the UK.
Midway USA would not ship a double edged bayonet (Swiss K-31) to my state. It should be a law that you cannot pass a law without doing away with at least four on the books.
The problem is getting one OUT of the UK in the post due to some ruling by............, well, whoever it was by remains unknown but it wasn't discussed in Parliament, HM Customs say that it's nothing to do with them and the Post Office say that they are national guidelines! But guidelines without any authority seemingly!!!!!!!!!
I had originally said that it would only be sold here in the US, but the replies here have convinced me that I can accept his offer to purchase, there should be no problems as long as some one over there in the postal system is not having a bad day and feels quarrelsome so thanks to all for the information. Aragorn243, the link was very informative, thanks especially to you for that. I will be selling to Paul in England as soon as we work out the details.
Shipped a Officer's Cavalry saber M1872 to UK without problem. Did experience problem with packer that didn't want to ship the saber, so I finished packing and shipped the saber myself. I think it importeant to state "antique" on customs declaration otherwise there may be customs fees applied if they think it is a new item.
Never had a problem with bayonets from USA to UK, just the extra charge for Vat and the handling charge, handleing charge is a joke considering you have already paid a small fortune for the postage.....
I quiestioned the handling charge right to the top of the Royal Mail tree Big Duke. They say that it only relates to importsd where duty and VAT is claimed/payable to HM Revenue/customs. This covers the PO costs and interest and a form of special delivery (?) as they have to PAY the customs and VAT to the Customs (Oh yea...... pull the other one I say...) ahead of you paying the Post Office.
Even if you refuse the package you have to pay - supposedly! Although if you refuse to pay, what can they do as it's alrteady been refused!
And even if you accept and then return the package/contents and claim the VAT and duty back, you STILL cannot claim the Post Office handling charge
I hate to pxxx on your corn flakes. Bayonets DO require export licensing from the U.S. Department of Commerce, (BIS), for export out of the USA. Another little ITAR tidbit I learned about last year. Fun, ain't it?
---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------
Almost forgot. They also require lodging with CBP/Census with an AES ITN prior to shipping.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
Does this cover all bayonets Brian including antique ones ? or based on modern ones ?
Going back to item 6/page 1 in this thread. I took it upon mysel;f to write to the Royal Mail about this blanket ban on the sending of bayonets and other sharp things, such as scissors etc through the post here in the UK. I asked what happens if a bayonet or, say a xxxxxxg great sharp sword or sabre for an olympic fencer comes into the Country by post. It'll get stopped at Customs and a bit of duty due - and collected by the Royal Mail and................. Then what. According to their charter and 'lesson of conduct' they are legally bound to deliver the goods. Whether they are sharp or not is pretty academic. It'll be coloured crayons and felt-pens next
I'll let you know what they say but they ain't replied yet
Well, all antique firearms shipments that don't require export licensing are controlled and require lodging with the AES ITN system so I'd say antique bayonets are licensable by BIS. I could be wrong because I haven't actually shipped any since I learned of all this.
Thanks to everyone for all of your thoughts and advice. Brian, you in particular have given me a considerable amount of information to think about. However, in searching the BIS section of the U.S. Department of Commerce's website, I can find only the following items that must be considered in this matter:
Commerce Control List Categories
0 = Nuclear materials, facilities and equipment (and miscellaneous items)
1 = Materials, Chemicals, Microorganisms and Toxins
2 = Materials Processing
3 = Electronics
4 = Computers
5 = Telecommunications and Information Security
6 = Sensors and Lasers
7 = Navigation and Avionics
8 = Marine
9 = Propulsion Systems, Space Vehicles, and Related Equipment
Bayonets, especially antique bayonets, do not come up in any searches so it seems that it may be covered by the following statement:
If Your Item is Not on the Commerce Control List - EAR99
If your item falls under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Commerce and is not listed on the CCL, it is designated as EAR99. The majority of commercial products are designated EAR99 and generally will not require a license to be exported or reexported. However, if you plan to export an EAR99 item to an embargoed or sanctioned country, to a party of concern, or in support of a prohibited end-use, you may be required to obtain a license.
Also, there is a minimum value of $2,500 listed (somewhere in all of the info, I can't remember where) that triggers requirements for licensing, taxing, etc. Now, I may be reading all of this wrong. The only relevant topic triggered in the search for "antique bayonet" and then "bayonet" was a link to the BATF that named what the requirements for importing and exporting firearms and ammunition, particularly antique firearms importation. All very confusing for my simple mind. I may have to call someone at the Department of Commerce, it all seems to be beyond my comprehension for a relatively low cost item like a single antique bayonet. Any thoughts? Most of these requirements seem to be aimed at businesses and manufacturers but maybe not.
My main concern when this all started was that the buyer might have difficulty receiving the item, but those fears were allayed buy Peter and the potential buyer and others (thanks Peter!) but now I have a concern that it may not make it out of the USA. Why do my cornflakes taste funny?:banghead:
From the list of controlled items:
0A918 Miscellaneous Military Equipment Not on the Wassenaar Munitions List
License Requirements
Reason for Control: RS, AT, UN
Control(s) Country Chart (See Supp. No. 1 to part 738)
RS applies to entire entry RS Column 2.
AT applies to entire entry AT Column 1.
UN applies to entire entry See §746.1(b) for UN controls.
List Based License Exceptions (See Part 740 for a description of all license exceptions)
LVS: $1500
GBS: N/A
CIV: N/A
List of Items Controlled
Related Controls: See ECCN 0A617.y.5 for items formerly controlled by ECCN 0A918.a.
Related Definitions: N/A
Items: Bayonets.
So, unless you sold your bayonet for $1500 or more, you should be good to go.
Bayonet sale to buyer in Great Britain
Hi, I'm a very new member here but - I live in Britain & have recently bought a P1907 SMLE bayonet, via an internet search, from an American Militaria store. The tracking information says that it is currently being processed by UK customs. I can't say how long this will take but if I've heard nothing from them (as has happened with other things) by next Tuesday I'll be giving them a call. I'll keep you posted, though I realise this may be outside your time frame for this sale.
Jim.
Where were all those other replies at lunchtime when I replied?
Jim, you may have missed the second page, I do that all of the time.... :confused: Post a reply and then when it shows up I find that the question has already been answered but I missed it!
Thanks for your reply to the thread and do let us know how your purchase works out. I think I have finally worked things out and I will be taking the bayonet for weighing and shipping costs at the Post Office tomorrow.
I've just paid the import VAT and handling charge and am expecting delivery on Tuesday. Not a word about what it is. By the way I'd like to commend you on still dealing with the chap in GB. There are others elsewhere who would have just sold to the home offer without second thought.
Well it's here. Not a hint of difficulty anywhere along the line. It was sent USPS Priority Mail international, Click-N-Ship. On the customs declaration, in the contents box , he marked x 'other' -explanation 'collectors item' & in the detailed description 'obsolete blade sample over 100 yrs old for collector'. The bayonet's lovely. The blade looks like it was made last week, so much so I was worried for a moment - but only a moment. I bough it from Jason Kaplan at J & J Military Antiques, mnt. Bethel in Pennsylvania. Very pleasant to deal with & v. professional. I haven't had a long look at it as it's for my birthday next month. Happy birthday Me!
Thanks very much for the encouraging post, it sounds like you got an excellent example.
Hi I have been following this thread with interest
AM in South Africa and tried to purchase a bayonet in the UK to be sent here No luck at all They would not send it?
Purchased a bayonet from a USA dealer and it was sent without a whisper. Did the same with a Dutch dealer and smiling all the way
Latest was a swap with a friend in Norway. I sent him a FN type B with normal air tracking postage and he returned the pleasure with a Finish M62 Fiskars the same way Delivery was 10 days either way and we are both smiling and will be doing it again
We put low values to them marked as "used display blade" and GIFT No hassles at all I must add that no courier company would accept them and when quoted were very expensive Postal service was a breeze and cheap in comparison
It's just the UK Royal Mail. Nobody quite knows where this absurd garbage/ruling came from. But as they are now a privatised utility, they can just, well....., invent their own rules. Long live the private buccaneers I say. The old Rover cars were the same. Priced themselves out of the market. Being called 'Rover' they thought they were VW or BMW but were marketing Austin/Morris crap, or Scrap!
Just been following this thread a bit. I've recently posted items to a friend in Australia, and I asked to insure that there are no new hangups with their postal service. As long as I mark the items "Antique Collectible Bayonet" on the customs inspection paperwork there has been no problems with him receiving items through the post. Just the cost of shipping and insurance can be a pain though.
It just seems to be the UK and Royal Mail in particular Patt1903. I think the answer is a little creativity in your description. Even though there is a description on the custome declaration, they still ask what the contents are. I asked why and the post office lady replied '..... that's just for the customs at the entry point in the US. Not for the Post Office here........' I mean...., how stupid is that? A declaration is a declaration is a declaration surely! I just told her loudly, for all to hear that it was a king size telescopic vibrator! Well, it was in a 12" long bright yellow tubular box. Has it got there yet Brian............?
I only know what I've learned as a registered exporter since the late 1990's. Mostly the hard way too. I could type horror stories here all day and bore y'all to death. DDTC, (Dept. of State) and BIS, (Dept of Commerce) are currently sorting out many things between them and changes are being made. Tons of folks don't pay any attention to ITAR and its export requirements from both agencies. It is brutally confusing and frustrating at times. Shipments to countries another than Canada of any ITAR controlled items has a $100 maximum, (Canada is $500), before export licensing is required. However; by law, even with exempted shipments, the shipper is required to be registered with Dept of Commerce/Census in the Automated Export System, (AES), in order to lodge and obtain an International Transaction Number, (ITN), before any kind of shipment by post or common carrier even if the value is below the licensing requirement. It's so confusing to most including the folks that regulate it, (namely Customs and Border Protection), that I often wonder if it will ever work. There's simply too much volume to keep some packages from slipping through the cracks. I had a call a month or so ago from a collector in North Carolina that had a package refused by the Post Office because it lacked the AES ITN. I offered to lodge and send it for him at $25 and actual shipping cost but the buyer on the other end declined. I'm guessing these agencies are slowly coming into compliance with one another and we'll start to have more stories of declined posting and seized items as time goes on. There is so much over regulation and bloat in government now that one of the big problems I see is that you can ask 10 different people from any of the regulating agencies the same exact question and get 10 different answers.
---------- Post added at 03:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:14 PM ----------
Peter, No, it's not back yet. I asked a prominent firearms attorney and head of the FAIR Trade watchdog group in Washington, DC if sending the scopes over for repair and return required temporary export licensing and the reply was no. If a US resident sends a scope out of the country permanently after auction sale or whatever, it does require export licensing. See what I mean about massive confusion?
Hi All, I again find this very interesting and am of the opinion that it could affect more of us than it seems. I am however only talking bayonets and no other goods.
When purchasing from a dealer surely he must have an export license as the goods are sent with an invoice ?
When making a purchase on E-Bay some are dealers and others are private sellers but proof of purchase must be added to the parcel to clear customs. What about export regulations?
When sent as a gift to a friend however there is no purchase involved and customs will only add vat etc and no export licence is possible?
Does this mean that the net is closing and in time we will not be able to do cross border trading at all !!!!!
Google ITAR, (International Traffic in Arms Regulations). It's all there although you'll most likely need to hire a lawyer to read it to you. In the USA, (although many are in denial), it is the law of the land and applies to all firearms, parts, accessories and other significant equipment exports. ITAR is applicable whether you're an individual, dealer or registered exporter. Folks who just mail or carry items out of the country are in violation if they get caught. Simple as that. I wouldn't say the net is closing but when all of the agencies involved in enforcement including the Post Office finally come into line with each other, it will become a much more difficult endeavor for those who choose to ignore it. Anyone wanting a proper education can contact Johanna Reeves of Reeves and Dola. She is the CEO of the F.A.I.R Trade group and an excellent firearms attorney practicing in Washington, DC.