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Just got this one come in this afternoon, Ex-Italian Navy SMLE with Italian FAT (Terni arsenal) Marks.
I have had quite a few of these Italian Naval Enfield's and this is the first I have seen with an actual Italian Arsenal stamp
Attachment 53109Attachment 53110Attachment 53111
Lots of nice Enfields tucked away over there. From what I've to understand, we'll never see them on this side of the pond.
A lot are being restricted to 5 shot because of a change in Italian gun laws
Is that beech on the front end of that one?
How come?Quote:
Originally Posted by limpetmine
What I was told was their asking price, the cost of shipment, fees, governmental noisemaking, makes the end cost much more than the market will bear.
I think it is, I have had around 50 or so of these Italian Navy rifles and they all come in absolutely caked in cosmoline type of preserver. It can take days to clean a batch of these rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I don't recall seeing a #1Mk3 dressed in Beech...before. I'm aware the Aussies used virtually all wood from white to black, but this is the first one of these I've seen.
Beech was used quite a bit during WWII or post WWII FTR. A good portion of all SMLE production were restocked at some point over they're long carriers.
Limpetmine has the answer why they haven't been imported in quantity to the USA. If I was rich I'd buy up a bunch and sit on them until reality struck the collecting public here in the USA. Unfortunately, it ain't the case! I looked at a bunch of wartime No.4's a few years ago, all original, British WWII issue that had never seen full blown FTR. Some had mismatch bolts but all were in spec and in nice shape. I left them alone for the same reason. Checked on them a year or so later and the prices had increased some more!
---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------
Oops, typo. Should read "their".
What I like about the Italian ones is the fact they are genuine military surplus and are in original military condition, free from any DIY gunsmith who has tinkered with them, they all have dents & bruises but are honest.
I sold a really nice one to a club member who immediately stripped it polished the brass butt plate and sanded the wood removing all the originality & inspectors marks then varnished it.........then brought it to the next shoot to show of his restored rifle.:dunno:
Simon, you should choose your friends better!!!!
LoL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon P
What I do refuse are requests for deactivation, I cant believe how many requests I get for rifles to be deactivated, some even get quite upset because I wont deactivate a perfectly good rifle.
We had a request to deactivate a really nice matching No4T which we had for sale in December, we offered to build him one at the fraction of the price, but he was adamant he wanted this rifle and it had to be deactivated. It didn't get deactivated and is now in Denmark.
Quote:
Originally Posted by limpetmine
I agree with Simon absolutely re the 'Italian' SMLE's. I have also recently been lucky enough to have the opportunity to look over a large batch of them & pick out some particularly nice rifles. They have all been very well maintained, greased up, & probably saw relatively little use whilst in Italian service, at least, in the case of the majority. Some I looked at appeared to have new barrels of Italian manufacture, though most had British barrels on them - all were serviceable & some near new. I gather pretty well all of these rifles had matching bolts when released from store, but the bolts were all stored separately & the inevitable happened. But even so, about a quarter of the rifles I have do have matching bolts, so I guess someone started off with good intentions, even if they didn't last long.......! Of the ones I saw, there were no volley sighted rifles, but plenty with cut-offs & windage rear sights. I even found a cond Mk IV dated 1905 amongst them (& have kept it!), so it's always worth having a rummage. These are decent well maintained rifles; used but not abused.
ATB.
Interesting. Might be worth looking into for countries like Australia, NZ and the UK where gun prices are pretty high anyway, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by limpetmine
I wouldn't call NZ as having high prices, especially compared with Australia or the UK, in fact prior to your drop in the $ there were planty of Aussies coming here to our auctions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield
Anyone you know 5th:DQuote:
Originally Posted by 5thBatt
Jeez Bindii, if you cut down your travel a bit, you might be able to afford a digital camera to catch up on the photo's you've never taken.:lol:
So when would these SMLEs have gone over to the Italians - and why? Was it just cheap guns available in large quantities after WWI? Why were the Italians unable to arms themselves, as most European nations tried to do?
Re Simon P's 'refurbished' one - horrifying - why do these people buy old rifles???
[QUOTE=muffett.2008;299433]Jeez Bindii, if you cut down your travel a bit, you might be able to afford a digital camera to catch up on the photo's you've never taken.:lol:[/QUOTE
Muff why would i let you know what i have. YOU WOULD KNOW THEN WHAT i had to buy. Still want to see your sight collection and have a shoot with you then a beer disscussing all things Lithgow.
Prinz, we gave them to the Italians as part of the victorious allies' programme of helping 'friendly' countries re-equip & re-arm after WW2. That is why a lot of Enfields also ended up in Belgium & Holland. Many if not the majority of these SMLE's are 'N' marked & it is thought that they were supplied either by the RN &/or the RCN to the Italians. At least this is as much as I have heard - if anyone else has more info on these rifles then feel free to chuck it in this direction....
ATB.
About a third of the SMLEs I had are marked on the left side with the Naval issue "N".
The No4s have no such mark, I thought it was the Canadians that supplied the Enfield's to the Italians, all the No4s I had from this batch have been Long Branch versions with 2 - groove barrels.
Several of the No4s only had handling marks and appeared unfired apart from proof.
It could well have been specifically the Canadians Simon. I suspect they probably went Navy to Navy & it may well have been that they came from RCN stores.
I only bought a couple of the No4's, but found exactly the same as you - we looked through about 50 & they were all 2 groove LB rifles. In fact this is why I only bought two of them - we all know that a good 2 grove barrel will shoot as well as a good 5 groover, but to all of my potential customers 5 is bigger than 2 so it must be better......
ATB
You made me chuckle Rog!
Funny; I've been shooting No.4's for 30 plus years and I usually reach for a favorite old former Canadian Army issue, '42 date Long Branch with post war Parkerized finish as FTR'd at CAL in the 50's or 60's with the dreaded 2 groove barrel!! I use it as a control because it's perfect!!!
Has anyone ever established if there's notable accuracy differences between two and 6 groove barrels? As far as I know there aren't, but then I'm very much in the "Wandering Zero on the Jungle Carbine was a myth" camp too.
If you search through older threads here, you'll find Peter Laidler has spoken at length about both of these stories. Others too...it's all here.
Ah.......but you didn't use a No5 during a short fleeting gun battle Colonel. When both you and the rifle got very hot.........
Admittedly this is true. The closest I've gotten to that is rapid fire events in service rifle competitions and I maintain any accuracy issues will have more do to with me and the fact I'm trying to throw rounds downrange as fast as I can work the bolt than they will with a wandering zero,Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Appears to have been a navy to navy transfer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Payne
RCNAD = Royal Canadian Navy Arms Depot St. Hubert Quebec and Dartmouth Nova Scotia
ENFIELD RIFLES FROM ITALIAN NAVY
EUROARMS - ENFIELD RIFLES FROM ITALIAN NAVY
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/enfIMG/a-Enf-4_cassa_1.jpg
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/enfIMG/Enf-4-test_03.jpg
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/enfIMG/a-Enf-4_exam_1.jpg
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/enfIMG/a-Enf-4_exam_4.jpg
I like the barred out "DP" rifles
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/enfIMG/Enf-DP_01.jpg
http://www.euroarms.net/EFD/enfIMG/Enf-DP_02.jpg
At least the Italian distributor went to the trouble of sorting out the the bolts and returning them to the correct rifles; kudos to them for that.