Take a look at the receiver ring.....
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=421014885
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Take a look at the receiver ring.....
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=421014885
Hmmmm, the only reason I can think of to remove those markings is if they included "M2"!
Scrubbed!
Easy to scrub and re-park. That's why the prick punch indents have color in them.
The "M2" could be easily 'lifted' if a law enforcement agency wanted to press the issue. Interesting question - would the buyer be liable or the seller or (?)? I wouldn't touch it with a 16.5' pole because they could (rightfully) prove I should know better. JMHO
I have seen a number of receivers with these faded markings on the ring. Usually they are
starting on the top and fading to the right side. I have seen them on Winchesters only. I have seen them on 5M, 6M, and 7M guns (including my own). The late '44 & '45 serials. Prior to purchase I had mine inspected by an expert gunsmith/machinist/precision firearm manufacturer here in CT. His assessment was as follows (for mine) .... height of handguard ring lip uniform over entire top of receiver ring. "Chatter" marks evident from machining at edge of handguard/receiver ring. Uniform receiver ring curvature, no flat spots. His call was that the receiver was originally manufactured this way. He suspected the stamping tool was wearing out and needed adjustment, repair, or replacement. He said that it was an expensive part to replace even then. We know that Winchester had the oldest tools and machines at the start of production. Probably was wearing out. War was ending soon and the carbine was moving to Springfield Armory, so why bother doing anything more than apply a temporary fix to this problem whenever it cropped up in the late guns.
This one's way beyond that. Nothing faded, it's all gone and re-finished...easy to see.
See this one too. GunBroker # 422521634
Kind of small...looks like the affected side has been scrubbed and the other left alone? Is that right?
Looks like it to me and I sure wouldn't think so :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I guess it's just whatever it takes to enable the sale...for max cash...
Here's another recent Winchester from GB. Believe this to be 6M serial.
So, that's right where it's going to say M1 or M2...and it's magically gone...
Wouldn't say gone. I'd say never got there. I've seen a number of Winchesters with the ring lightly stamped like this while the right side lettering sort of fades out. However, the surrounding steel apparently still shows the milling marks, correct contours and radius. I think Winchester more likely had stamping issues during manufacture. I can't believe that so many carbines could be altered in exactly the same way unless it was at the point of manufacture. I'm not saying that some weren't intentionally altered later but I don't think that they all were.
So...a weak a** roller die then? The letters run down?Quote:
Originally Posted by rpw7351
A little intrusting, the original Gunbroker ad is now dead.
It looked 'scrubbed' to me too.
Jim.... I certainly can't say for sure. However, it is the opinion of my gunsmith who is also a master machinist and carbine manufacturer. It is a fact that Winchester's machines were in bad shape when they started making carbines. I'm sure that towards the end of production many were on their last legs. Further, the end of the war was imminent and termination of their carbine contract close at hand. I'm sure Winchester wouldn't want to be spending any money on a dying product line's machinery that it absolutely did not have to. I understand that the roller die were a very expensive item, even back then. Also, with production shifting to all M2 production for use in the Pacific and the planned conversion of existing M1s to M2s who would care what was stamped on the ring. Stamped M1 or M2 or no stamp, the select fire lever told you what the gun was. Finally, Winchester had been making guns for the US military for decades. They knew what they could get away with and what they couldn't. Weren't they regarded as the roughest finished of all the manufacturers? In short, IMHO, as long the carbine functioned properly out it went. With or without stampings. Oh, Harlan... All GB ads go dead but the pictures live on if you download'em! Jim... thanks for your input.