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Hi every body this is my second post and first attempt at a photo since actually joining the forum. Just hoping someone could tell me what the little "z" (if that's what it is) means. I know what the H is of course. The rifle is a beautiful No1 Mk111 sniper.
Thanks in advance
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bump...
The answer MUST fall onto your Australians out there Iron Hoss! But it certainly ain't the usual Armourers death-mark indicating Z
Don't know. Not sure I've even seen it before.
Maybe they just came to the end of the alphabet.
"Tell you what Bruce - lets give those guys in 100 years time a bit of a teaser, now pass the XXXX"
Where are the Australians when you need them...............?
this one is still sorting out the files recovered from a computer change out.... I'll dig through my HT "H" pics and see if I can find another with the mark....Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Ok, just checked pics of the "H" on nearly 20 more Lithgow snipers, none of them have the little z mark on them....
It may remain a mystery
Good morning Son. How's the Armourers shop over there in Oz? Hope that you're all taking it easy except when the EME walks over for his daily look-see, when some remarkable transformation always seems to take place! Been there and seen it from both sides of the door.
Arte et Marte. Peter
Hi Peter. Had a drop in from Ian K on Friday, he walked into the wrong building... Had a yarn about his recent UK trip.
Our structure and set up is very different from what you were used to. Nobody senior to me in trade.
What you haven't told us is what year the rifle is.
The 'H' stamp was applied to both the original H pattern and also to rifles builtup later to that standard.
The original run in 1933 was on new actions, subsequent rifles were a mix of selected dates depending on accuracy.
P L probably telling rather tall stories sort of......
Hi Muffer,Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
Mate are you able to elaborate on this a little more. A couple of points you made there I was not aware of. What rifles were built up later to that standard? Didn't the H pattern conversions run from 1933 to 1939 ( I don't know where I got that) and weren't they all H pattern conversions. And the original run in 1933 of new actions, do you mean 30's dated actions. I've only ever seen early lithgow actions dating pre 1917 and earlier English. You've got my juices flowing with this.
I was hoping to pop in and see you at Belmont if you have a moment to spare during the week. Ive lost your number.
No worries Andrew, there are a few references in the archives on the H pattern, to clarify, it would have been 1930 actions, although records show that undated actions were stored(and all other parts) in sufficient quantities to assemble bookoo amounts of firearms, parts still being manufactured during those non rifle assembly years.
There were 3000? assembled initially, subsequent upgrades were available to rifle clubs (remember this pattern was specifically for the ARC) and the conversion program was on early dated (1915-18) rifles, both new rifles and barrels were available from 1933Attachment 55485
Later HT conversions were usually from these early dated firearms alsoAttachment 55486 like my 1916 HT, this is all off the top of my head, being 700k from my paperwork.
Er....., chaps....... He's not interested in the H marking. It's the Z that he's asking about unless I've missed something - again!
Yeah I got a bit confused how it went from Z to H
We digressed sorry.
Sorry, the year date will tell us if the butt is pre WWII Lithgow or later Slazenger furniture.
Ill have to get back to you on the date but I'll throw this at you, we think the barrel on this HT is stainless
Now that would be an interesting development!Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Horse
Can you post some pics of the markings on the barrel and tell us what makes you think it's stainless?
Its very shiny :) .Quote:
Originally Posted by Son
We've got half a dozen HT,s and when you see them all together this one stands out.
Ill get some photos and the date soon.
As in silver shiny or shiny blue?Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Horse
As in stainless steel shiny :lol: (sorry, yes silver)Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
only at the muzzle can it really be seen though
Would nickel steel look like that?
Ill get some nice pics soon.
I was hoping you would all say "z... ah yes, that means stainless steel barrel" and mystery would be solved, but I guess not huh.
All good fun stuff though hey?
any other info that I can post that y'all think might help, please ask.
My apologies for getting in late on this discussion. My "H" has a small "m" stamped above it (see pics). Rifle is a 1907 Enfield MkIII. It has a sold out of service stamp of feb 1926 on the stock (right over the cartouche!). Barrel is a Lithgow replacement of 11-1938. Has an H on the knox form as well. Un-numbered early lithgow replacement bolt.
Always wondered about the "m". Another piece of the mystery...
My Lithgow 1916H has that under the safety but upside down to look like a W
Now the M I've seen quite a bit I think, but I've no idea what it is.
OK, my best guestimate on the 'Z'. as it's obvious that I'm not going to get a build date.
As I stated earlier, there was the initial contract of H pattern rifles, then a subsequent run of weapon updates to 'H' pattern for rifle club members, using their rifles, usually of early build dates - 1915/19.
This work was carried out at military depots central to the clubs requesting the upgrade. for example, within my immediate area, you would have Murrurundi, Scone, Aberdeen, Merriwa, Denman, Muswellbrook and Singleton, all within a 60mile radius and all close to rail links, used by the travelling armourers back then.
As the H stamping was placed on these upgrades when completed, I think that individual armourers also were allocated a letter as an identifier, stamped near the H, and also noted on other rifle repairs done on request by the Clubs.
Records show that on average there were rifle inspections and maintainance programs twice yearly post WWI, unsure if this level was maintained or reduced to one inspection, my Club records show a single yearly inspection post WWII but by then club Armourers were allocated to do limited work, anything beyond their scope either waited for the inspection team or was forwarded to the nearest Repair facility, in our case Singleton.
I must reiterate that this is an assumption on my part, backed up by Club repair records and requests, but with no definate proof that these letters actually indicate what I suggest.
Very interesting information muffer.
thanks muffet sounds very plausible, when I get home Ill get those build dates and Ill also go right over it and see if there are any other little z's.
In the mean time what do you all think about the possibility of a stainless steel H barrel on a No1 Mk111 sniper.
A dream, the stainless tests were light profile I think, specifically numbered and not general release.
........but never say never.
I have seen a couple of the stainless barrel trials rifles, and have quite a few pics of one. Yes, they were standard profile barrels, but having seen plenty of other "stuff" that was undeniable but still almost unbelievable, I don,t often use the word "never" either. Looking forward to some pics of the shiny areas and the markings if possible!Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
It would be a shame actually if one of the stainless trials rifles were striped out to put the tube in a HT, one of only a dozen or so and infinitely more valuable than a HT.