New Enfield collector - my first specimen a 1942 Lithgow No. 1 Mk III*

Hi all,

This is the same J.Jovino import I posted about two months back. I finally got it last week. I'm quite shocked, surprised, pleased and suspicious of it's condition. It's looks like it was never used. Park looks great, the only wear is around a few edges and screws. The wood is in excellent shape. It's a bit dark, but has very few dents and scratches. The bore looks to be in great shape too.

One would think it's bins rifle, except it's all numbers matching. I think the stock is a replacement because it's stamped 1943, but the stamp on the bottom is 1942 like the rest of the rifle. I took some pics. So what do you guys think? It looks like a real 1942 Lithgow to me. It's a clever forgery if not. I just don't understand why it's in such great shape, as compared to a Garand or a Mosin from the same period.

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...3&d=1407610549

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...4&d=1407610635

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...5&d=1407610681

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...6&d=1407610709

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...7&d=1407610748

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...8&d=1407610820

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...9&d=1407610859

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...0&d=1407611292

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...1&d=1407611334

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...2&d=1407611378

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...3&d=1407611397

Looks pretty good to me.

A genuine 1942 Lithgow assembled at the Orange Feeder Factory, it could have been one of the 100,000 rifles Britain ordered in 1941 and was placed in war stocks as Britain would have been in full production of the No 4 at that time. Nice Slazenger Coachwood stock all parts matching no butt FTR marks or rack numbers, I will put my chin out and say it has spent it's life in War Stores here in Australia until they were sold off in the 80's.

It is in very good shape but that's not overly unusual so don't be too surprised. Yes the wood is a little dark but that is the normal appearance of unmolestered coachwood. I wouldn't do anything to that stock except rub some linseed oil into it.
Assembled at lithgow factory in 1943 as indicated on the butt.

I'm curious. Whats the barrel date?

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Originally Posted by Homer

It is in very good shape but that's not overly unusual so don't be too surprised. Yes the wood is a little dark but that is the normal appearance of unmolestered coachwood. I wouldn't do anything to that stock except rub some linseed oil into it.
Assembled at lithgow factory in 1943 as indicated on the butt.

I'm curious. Whats the barrel date?

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That's all I intend on doing. Where would the barrel date be located?

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Originally Posted by 57Overlander

That's all I intend on doing. Where would the barrel date be located?

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Left side of barrel under the hand guard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homer

Left side of barrel under the hand guard.

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The date on the barrel is 43.

Sorry, it's the month I'm more interested in, if its not too much trouble.

No worries, the date stamp was 3.43

Remember that the receiver date is the date it was made not assembled. All rifle assembly was sent to Orange Feeder factory on 1 June 1940 and ceased on 31 August 1945 the last produced at Orange was F39580. So yours was assembled at the Orange Factory not Lithgow. Lithgow was madly producing Brens and other needed items, note the timber including the butt is marked Slazenger 42, the 43 on the flat of the butt indicates it's final assembly/acceptance was some time in 1943 of which some 136,262 were made between late 1942 and 1943.

I was curious about that. So the major parts were stamped when they were produced and the final assembly date is on the stock. Correct?

Are there any remnants of the old feeder factories? I've added a visit to the Lithgow museum on my bucket list.

You will have a ball at the Lithgow Museum.

You have it in 1 yes the parts were dated when produced and the final assembly/acceptance is on the flat of the butt along with any FTR date.
Of the feeder factories Bathurst Rifle Factory No 2 (BA) was leased in December 1945 and is or was a furniture factory.
Orange Rifle Factory No 3 (OA) was leased in early 1946 by Electricity Meter and Allied Industries later bought by Email Ltd.
Forbes Feeder factory (FA) was closed in 1945, unkown what is left.
Wellington Feeder Factory (WA) was closed in 1945 and became Orana Techincal College.
Slazenger (SLAZ) was not a Government establishment, still making tennis rackets.

Aussie can you confirm if this rifle was assembled in Orange?

hard to tell from just the Butt, assembled in 1942 (you knew that), Lithgow records show that Orange took over assembly on 15 March 1942 so if it's serial number is higher than D40000 yes if it is Exxxxx definitely

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Originally Posted by Aussie48

hard to tell from just the Butt, assembled in 1942 (you knew that), Lithgow records show that Orange took over assembly on 15 March 1942 so if it's serial number is higher than D40000 yes if it is Exxxxx definitely

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Doesn't MA Lithgow stamped into the butt indicate it was made in Lithgow?

You did write earlier, that assembly shifted to Orange 1st June 1940 which contradicts your last post.

MA ceased in August '45 then I am pretty happy having a '45 MA Mk III also under the bolt handle on the receiver it has 1940 which ties in with what Au 48 said I think anyway it is a 45 and that's all that matters to me.

The overlap of production was about six months, I'd say Lithgow assembly, although some parts on Orange early builds were still marked MA until used up.

OK I think I can finally put this one to bed from the Lithgow Museum:

The markings on Lithgow Butts are the date the rifle was accepted into store at Lithgow from the feeder factories.

Manufacture numbers:

00001 to 99999 (1913 – 1918) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
A00001 to A99999 (1918 – 1920s) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
B00001 to B99999 (1920s – 1941) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
C00001 to C99999 (1941) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
D00001 to D99999 (1941 – 1942) Some manufactured in Orange SAF-3
E00001 to E99999 (1942 – 1944) Manufactured Orange SAF-3
F00001 to F39580 (1944 – 1945) Manufactured Orange SAF-3
F39581 to F40580 (1953) Manufactured Lithgow SAF (machinery trials)

My 1940 Lithgow is a strange one B47007 as it is a MKIII with the magazine cut off slot milled in the receiver. Perhaps Homer can explain that one!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aussie48

OK I think I can finally put this one to bed from the Lithgow Museum:

The markings on Lithgow Butts are the date the rifle was accepted into store at Lithgow from the feeder factories.

Manufacture numbers:

00001 to 99999 (1913 – 1918) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
A00001 to A99999 (1918 – 1920s) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
B00001 to B99999 (1920s – 1941) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
C00001 to C99999 (1941) Manufactured Lithgow SAF
D00001 to D99999 (1941 – 1942) Some manufactured in Orange SAF-3
E00001 to E99999 (1942 – 1944) Manufactured Orange SAF-3
F00001 to F39580 (1944 – 1945) Manufactured Orange SAF-3
F39581 to F40580 (1953) Manufactured Lithgow SAF (machinery trials)

My 1940 Lithgow is a strange one B47007 as it is a MKIII with the magazine cut off slot milled in the receiver. Perhaps Homer can explain that one!

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That list is of no real use unless you are doing a study on serial number to butt socket dates (not butt dates) & even then its not very accurate.
eg C prefixed Lithgows while nearly all dated 1941 on the butt socket were nearly all assembled in 1942 & D prefix in 1943
Lithgow changed from the MkIII to MkIII* sometime in the last half of 1941.

Wow! Thanks guys. I've learned a lot. I've taken some Google map trips to Lithgow and Orange and learned a great deal about govt and factory stamps. The rear sight protector is marked OA so I'm going to assume it's a mix of Lithgow and Orange parts assembled at the Orange feeder factory. So it seems that Jovino did import complete rifles. If it was put in storage, I wonder why the Brits never took possession of it.

Probably still some discussion to have on this one overlander as to where your rifle was assembled.

57Overlander
Here's my rifle that is close to yours.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ITHYmain-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LITHYlhs-1.jpg

Hey our rifles are sisters! They could have been at the same factory at the same time. Pretty cool.:)

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Originally Posted by 5thBatt

57Overlander
Here's my rifle that is close to yours.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD4-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ithgowD1-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ITHYmain-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LITHYlhs-1.jpg

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From Ian Skennertons TLE
"Orange commenced manufacture on 15th March 1942 along with No1 bayonet production from July 1942. After this, rifle assembly was transferred from Lithgow"

From this, i would say both our rifles were assembled at Lithgow & not Orange even though both our rifles do have OA marked parts.

My Mk III* has the F 372** serial on the reinforce on the left has OA VII, also present L small arrow 24 large arrow all in a line arrows above and below the 24, a H barrel with 6 '59 the barrel has J A and two Lithgow stars just under the small top wood, the Butt is MOA SMLE III* HV 1945 Butt plate OA I use this sometimes if I feel like a change from my No. 4's

The nose cap is not serial No. to the rifle but is BA and an E prefix though the action and the cap etc have this green tinged appearance the only reason I have not pictured it is I have before and it has a teak stock at present that I had my stock maker fit up for me saving the original if I ever decide to sell it (When hell freezes maybe). Any info 5th Batt would be good TIA.
I brought this book the other day 1921 1st ed thought you would enjoy the pic.