Just picked up this 1903, serial number 1182090. First I was wondering if it could be a NM rifle ? Second I need a complete J6 bolt and a floor plate with spring and follower. Also the bolt stop.
Thanks Derrick
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Just picked up this 1903, serial number 1182090. First I was wondering if it could be a NM rifle ? Second I need a complete J6 bolt and a floor plate with spring and follower. Also the bolt stop.
Thanks Derrick
Derrick, what is the barrel date on your rifle? Also, does it have a polished bolt on it now? What's the stamping on the safety lug? Your serial number suggests that it might be a 1920 National Match rifle. The 1920 National Match rifles were put together in Fiscal Year 1920, which ran from July 1st 1919 to June 30th 1920. My 1920 National Match rifle is number 1181006. It has a barrel date of 11-19. It has a polished J5 bolt with the swept back handle.
Could you post some pictures of your rifle?
Fred
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Darn Fred, that sure is a pretty gun, Ray
Thanks Ray. I've never shot it yet. Just keep wiping it down. I know...what a waste, eh?
Derrick, does your rifle have the same profile as mine? It should of course have a grooved trigger and possibly a DAL inspectors cartouche.
If your rifle looks different, it's possible that your rifle was like most of the other 1920 National Match rifles. As I understand it, the 1920 NM rifles, like the other NM types before them each year, could only be purchased and owned by an active duty member of the U.S. Military. They were sold at the 1920 National Matches. Those rifles that were Not sold to individuals, but might've been used by competitors anyway, were withdrawn after the Matches, and disassembled. Their components were then used in the assembly of the next years National Matches in 1921. Possibly the J5 bolt on my 1920 NM rifle originally started out on a 1919 National Match rifle. The receivers of the left over 1920 National Match rifles were used to assemble Service Rifles and reissued in their new incarnation.
That is why although there were originally what...3,000 or so of the 1920 NM rifles made by Springfield Armory, only those that were bought by Active Duty individuals at the 1920 National Matches at Camp Perry were left unaltered and intact for collectors today. There must be very few of them around. I know of one particular gentleman though who is very well known on 1903 forum boards who owns Several of them. He's probably THE most knowledgeable person on the subject of 1903's and National Match rifles living. It was he who confirmed my rifle as a 1920 National Match for me when I asked him what type of National Match rifle, if any, it was. He explained how most people today Mistakenly believe that the first National Match 1903 to be made as such from the ground up was the 1921 National Match rifle. He explained that the 1921 National Match rifles were just the 1st ones to be sold to the general public. I believe he told me that Springfield Armory had been assembling National Match 1903's from the ground up since 1910. Ever since then, the National Match 1903's were certainly NOT just general service rifles that had been worked on to produce such rifles for the Camp Perry matches.
Please post some photo's of your rifle Derrick!
Fred
Thats a very nice rifle Fred. There is bad news to my rifle. It blew up . Either someone tried to fire a 8mm in it or fired it when it was loaded with grease dirt and oil. The receiver is still good as is the barrel. the only parts that were damaged are the ones mentioned above.
The barrel date is 1-20. The stock was shattered where the cartouche is and missing wood there. The gun is very dirty and has dried on grease dirt and oil on it . Even in the inside of the receiver. It has a lyman 48 on it along with a globe style front sight. The rails looked polished to me but the bolt might have been blued.
I will post pictures sometime today. I only paid $125 for the rifle and took a chance. The parts are worth that.
Derrick
You can't tell if the other parts are damaged by just eyeballing them. Don't just replace and sell it or use it as a shooter. Whatever caused it to detonate has done more damage than you can see...
I will have it checked out more than once. I will never sell it without telling the whole story of the rifle. But Thanks for the advice Jim.
Derrick
Here are pictures of the rifle. I hope they tell a good story.
DerrickAttachment 55900Attachment 55914Attachment 55913Attachment 55912Attachment 55911Attachment 55910Attachment 55909Attachment 55908Attachment 55907Attachment 55906Attachment 55905Attachment 55904Attachment 55903Attachment 55902Attachment 55901Attachment 55915
The gold coloring on the parts is from a brass brush I used to try and get the crud off.
Shazam! I wonder if there was a pierced primer or if the brass case split open on the side of the body. The rear sight assembly is still correct for a 1920 National Match rifle. The cocking piece is a replacement. The color case hardened cut off might be one of those aquired from Rock Island for the 1920 National Match rifles because Springfield had a difficult time coming up with enough because their prodution of Cut Offs at that time were for the Mark I 1903's that were being produced. The butt plate is correct. The trigger is a replacement (should be serrated). Of course the front sight was replaced. The stock and hand guard look correct. The barrel looks to be original to the receiver. Safety looks correct. I can't tell what type bolt there is without seeing the stamping on the safety lug. Any marks there?
It looks to be a 1920 National Match rifle that fell into hard times.
Gosh, if the receiver doesn't have any set back or damage, I'd think you could rebuild a faximily of a 1920 National Match rifle around it without too much trouble. Just remember, a swept back handled J5 bolt (Properly polished) would be just as correct as a J6 bolt which is kinda tough to find.
There are no markings on the lugs of the bolt.The trigger has grooves in it, by serrations do you mean a cross hatch pattern ?
What would one do to check out the receiver ? I know a gunsmith but sometimes its hard to find a good one. I can see no cracks of any kind but should it be magnafluxed or something similiar ?
Fred do you know where a good J5 or J6 bolt might be hiding ? Thanks for your help, I dont think I can get hurt on the rifle for the price I paid.
Derrick
The trigger should be Grooved. I use the term serrations.
J5 bolts can be found on eBay occasionally as well as Gun Broker. The trick is to find one that is already Armory polished with a swept back handle.
I've not seen a J6 bolt anywhere. Possibly somebody has one squirreled away.
I would want a gunsmith to use a Springfield Armory Headspace Bolt along with a full set of 30-06 head space gauges, Go, No Go and Field gauge, to check for a stretched receiver. I'm not sure what else would be necessary, but I'd always be wondering why the gas blew back into the receiver and magazine well. I'd have that barrel checked out by a competent gun smith too and not just a guy who says he's one because he owns a shop and fiddles around with stuff in his spare time. There are probably such competent guys who frequent this site. I've never needed the services of a Gunsmith but they're out there.
Thanks for the info Fred. I looked at my trigger again and it has the serrations you mentioned at the lower end of the trigger.I believe this is a NM that has really taken a beating. After just looking at it again this rifle may have been shot while still packed in grease. There is dried grease and crud that is thick on it in places that should not have it there if you are to shoot.Inside the receiver and in the all the nooks and crannys.
Well thanks for all the help and will keep you posted on what I find and the possible progress on bringing this rifle back to life.
Derrick
Oh yea, I can see the grooves along the length of the trigger in the 2nd photo. Derrick, did the guy you bought it from say where he got it?
All he said was he has had this rifle for along time . I think he bought it in a lot of guns.
Derrick
Beautiful stock on that rifle!
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by SA M1Dom
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Derrick, I just noticed that your bolt certainly is a J6 and it was blued! Hmmm... I wonder if somebody did that to the normally bright bolt...? I believe that your rifle was originally a 1920 National Match Rifle while it was being used when somebody just blew it up. THAT is a shame. A sad, regrettable shame and a waste of a very rare rifle! I wonder how they did it? I'm no expert on such things, but I'd think that maybe there was a primer pocket pierced and the force of the escaping gasses blew back into the receiver and mag well and blew the rim of the bolt face off. Anyway, that's what I'm guessing at.
Derrick, here is another stock with a DAL cartouche. It's on eBay. Just click on the link....
1903 Springfield Fingergroove Stock DAL Very Nice Ogek | eBay
Well I really scrubbed the receiver up and I did find a crack!!! There is a pin down by the ejector and it is cracked there. The gun was really dirty with a ton of dried grease caked in all the nooks and crannys. This may be why it blew. My friend is going to make a repro USMC sniper from the parts and fit them to a good receiver.
Thanks for all the help,
Derrick
It's sad to see such a rare NM rifle come to such a sad ending.
second rifle looks repairable...i have fixed much worse