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With a big thanks to bigduke6 I've finally managed to get the Boresighting device for the L1A1 Rifle. Here's a display I did today with it. Instructions for boresighting are contained in the User Handbook and the 1975 edition of the Infantry Training Pamphlet.
The boresighting bracket is fitted to an American M2 Tripod.
Enjoy
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7f14db9a-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e3f9c733-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0dac7c91-1.jpg
That was the original incarnation of the device. I'm sure that Tankiue will chip and agree that the inserts were a load of trouble so......
The final version was similar but instead of the inserts etc etc, a sub calibre barrel was used and the TMH was lowered to allow visual access from the rear. All parallax was eliminated, the useless mirror and cropsswired muzzle plug were binned and everyone was happy. I seem to recall that the mirror device bit was soft soldered into an old shell case and it came from something else.
Nothing like a good old Land Rover rifle holder to hold it steady:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
That would make it a precision instrument then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Worth noting that the SUIT sight pouch was a very useful bit of kit. You could keep most things in it. Until recently we had a load of SUSATs stored in them. Yes, very useful. I don't remember the fasteners being like the pouch shown though.
Did you ever use the boresighter thing Gil?
Now I'm going to have to get another set up so I can have the two versions side by side. At least I have a spare subcal barrel I can use.
Is there any paperwork covering the alterations for the Mk.2 boresighting setup?
The pouch is the very first version from the Pattern 72 nylon webbing. The sight fitted is the L2A1 SUIT Sight.
I'm not sure that it was called the Mk2 version. What happened was that the kit came as an assembly and replacement parts were not easily available so the kits fell by the wayside through lack of use. After that, there was a suggestion (called GEMS) doing the rounds that used a spent case with the primer and pocked bored out but you still got parallax at the muzzle. The sub-cal idea camwe on stream and the barrel was an available spare part via Ord so that's what we used thereafter.
Is that about right Tankie. Feel free to correct me re the sequences. The good thing about the kit was that you could do it in any 15m(?) distance/space such as a warm classroom
Nice display and certainly looks far better with the rest of the kit than on the top of my cupboard, can see you have been busy with the Brasso like you said.
Gil, the Land Rover SLR holders are still available seen two on ebay just before I sent it, I thought the leather on the holder let it down so had a look to see if you could get them.
Designed to hold your rifle in peacetime on rough roads, take it from me they were quickly binned from Landrovers in places like NI where if you were dicked as the driver, you cuddled it tighter than your wife and kept it very close at hand, especially in open topped L/R's with no doors either.
Peter,
the laserboresighters should be banned, they are pretty useless, under powered for use in daylight on a 25m range, but also loose inside their manufactured tubes which didn't help. Definately a Friday night job from Shenzhen valley
Went back to the old favourite 3' x 3' white sheet of paper:lol::lol:
To be honest Gil, I never used a laser boresighter. I used to zero the new Guard L85 rifles, with the new guard every Wed morning here on the 25m range before lunch, before they changed guard for their weeks stint. Some iron sights, some SUSAT. Sit around on the firing point, have a chat, go through the armed protocols etc etc in a relaxed way. Never found the need for the laser. Where we did find it useful was - do you remember that adjustable grenade sight thinggy/abortion that went over the top of the SUSAT? We had to fit these to 300 rifles and used the laser boresight down in the QM's cellar where it was dark to adjust the grenade sight to a point relative to the bore.
The good bit was that the rifle grenade was declared obsolete soon afterwards because the power from a ballastite cartridge was crap and the Australian ADE shoot-through grenade was 'found wanting' after another SASC Captain was blown up while firing one during a demo!
Sorry for going off at a tangent. A bit like that grenade I'd say.........
Blimey............that re envigered my memory banks, yes totally forgot all about yet another piece of crap we had ha ha!
Lots of good stuff came from the Trial and Error unit at SASC :) thats why Benny left us and went over to the dark side with you:lol::lol:
All joking aside, if it wasn't for you guys many a battle would have been lost had we stuck ridgidly with the bondooks as they were issued. So much was learnt in addition to the manufacturers issued "guide book" on every single weapon, from total experience in the field.
Just take the SA80 as an example and how it has evolved to what it is today, from such early disastrous operational days..... days I shall never forget, however, all the info gathered by you guys made it what it is now, how you found the patience I'll never know, I would have stuck it up someones area where the sun doesn't shine at Royal Ordnance at lot earlier than when it did finally get inserted:lol::lol::lol::madsmile:
Sorry for the late response Peter. I knocked a cup of Coffee over my laptop a couple of weeks ago. & yes, it is buggered! Writing this on my newly delivered an hour ago. Laptop, via house & contents insurance!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Yes, you are quite correct with your comments above. When I left Warminster, there were TWO of these borsighting MkI aids. Sitting on the dexian shelving, in the Armourers Shop. They never left those shelves in the 2 years I was on attachment there!.........I have one in the Collection myself. Acquired approx. a year ago.
Thanks for the replies guys, I will make a note of the latter 'corrected' method of boresighting with the .22 Conversion Kit barrel. Was the boresighting chart still used with the new method or was something else used?
While were looking at some unusual training aids, here's another that I'm looking for the 'bracket' for.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...position-1.jpg
I assume that this is in .22" for mounting on the exterior of an Anti-Tank Gun. Or Tank main Armament. For interior 30 Mtr Range practice?
Definately a .22 by the absence of the gas block and return spring tube. Also the cut-off pistol grip thinggy. I would say that it was to replicate the or fit into the M8C rifle mount on top of the wombat. It wouldn't sit inside the main armament barrel as the mag would foul the chamber.
All this sub-calibre training and electronic laser simulation - they were just starting to do simulation training with hand grenades too - is really no substitute for the real McCoy
As you say an indoor substitute for the .5 on the Wombat
Simulation grenade throwing, like the simulated laser golf course....... Everyone will agree that there's nothing like the first time you threw a hand grenade. Our Military Training instructor told us that nothing would match it and we all kept the first ring and pin as a souvenir.
Its the sub-cal unit for the CRV(T) Scorpion as per the EMER D119, Misc Instr No. 19, Iss 1, Mar 73; RIFLE 7.62 MM L1A1, Technical Handbook - Miscellaneous Instruction - Conversion of rifle for use on CIM's and gunnery training turrets.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mounting-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...27356bae-1.jpg
Yes Peter, and still dons the zip as a pull, on my original PARA smock.
Great Pics there Kiwi
Yep, makes sense and when I look, there it is in my EMER copy!
It's even stranger because at one time we had a load of Australian made .22" semi auto sportco rifles designated the L19 as I seem to remember. They did the same sub-cal job in our Centurion gun tanks. The L19's were stripped of all the superflous crap and fired down the main 105mm gun barrel at solid rubber tanks.
The 'target' tanks at 25yds away were made from very hard compressed rubber and lasted a fair while. But when you hit them they just sat there. BEST was to hit the sand just below them which sent them flying. In much the same way as the Iraqi T72 turrets did in Gulf1
The sportco's....... yes....... Even though they had no woodwork the sights were still on them. So whenever a Centurion was taken out across Salisbury Plain for a REME track-test (after a new set of tracks was fitted), the commander would take a sportco and take pot-shots at the zillions of peasants that littered Salisbury Plain. Did I say peasants......... I meant Pheasants as we didn't have too many illegal immigrants then!
It's all about money Peter, you know that. If they can squeeze a few pence out to put into another pocket, they will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Just for Peter :)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ertarget-1.jpg
When I was in Basic Training in '74. There wee not enough grenades available in Arborfield. So our Illustrious instructors, made us use large stones!!!!!.........Or when 'Available'. The bottom round feet with spigot attached. From those old Grey Painted Amy Bed's!.............'To have Peace, you must train for War'........(On a Budget, of course!) ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
They didn't let us go ballistic either Tankie. One grenade each plus a few left over for the chosen few - which never included me! Later, in the early 80's (?) or so, when the old No36 was obsolete my friend from Glascoed told me that the price to the MoD, per No36 grenade was £1.16p.
Mind you when I was on and later, running a small training team I could have, but never really bothered after a few! But £1:16p....... what a cheap way to kill!
..................... phospherus was just a different way of clearing them enclosed spaces:bash:
Wow! That IS cheap Pete! The Poxy replacement the L2, MUST have cost a LOT more to manufacture. & wasn't anywhere NEAR as lethal in kill radius area. They are using a totally different grenade now in Service. I haven't seen an example yet though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I would love a decent Mills in the collection. But I feel they are grossely over priced for what they are! I am looking for an L1A1 Energa Grenade Lanucher, if you have one in your shed Mate? I have a No.4 Rifle Launcher in Exchange!.......;)
I think just about EVERYBODY who has thrown a grenade. Keeps the ring from it. & fits it on the zipper of their combat smock don't they? An 'Ally' bit of kit, that is convienient to unzip with cold/tired hands. Or with gloves on (On the Range when you are ALWAYS cold!!)
Only my Civvy perspective.... I have found the Laser bore sighter's a complete load of crap, what's the matter with good old fashioned "peer down the pipe" bore sighting, I just use a shooting bench and shooting bag, 3 inch sighting target and 100yds, works every time.
With the SUIT/L1A1 combo, I separate the TMH, remove the bolt and carrier and adjust, always puts me on target with just a few rounds to fine tune..
It won't work with L1 open sights ( obliviously):rolleyes: but L1A1 scope combos, it works a treat....
This method works incredibly well with my Springfield 1903A4 inparticular, always spot on a t 100yds...saves on very expensive .30-06 ammo!
And while we're here, and to save starting a new thread and stripping one off, can anyone tell me the thread/pitch/dimensions etc of the flash eliminator thread on the L1A1 muzzle. [I] seem to think/remember that it is/might be the same as the external thread on the return spring tube. Anyone........
Peter,
I have this written down does it concur? 9/16x24 rh
Gil
Thanks Gil. I'll try that on a bar. But what thread form? Metric or something imperial? I dson't have a barrel end handy to measure or shadowgraph with
I'm sorry Peter...won't 9/16 X 24 be an Imperial? It IS for one of the Queen's barrels isn't it?
Peter,
Definitely Imperial as I only do old coinage and measurements............especially at my age :super:
Is it me.......... But WHICH imperial thread pitch chaps. There's more than one and contrary to what you all believe, the L1A1 wasn't actually 'imperial' overall. It was a hotch potch of both thread types and measurements. Just try rethreading the foresight blade with an imperial thread and see what happens or the........ and the............. and
Yes, I follow...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler