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Can anyone please identify this chest bandoleer. Has 11 seperate pouches and I believe is of military origin probably chinese. Pouches are not very large and would losely house a 20 round M1 carbine mag (as an example of its dimensions). No markings can be found.
It is a US Army WW1 chest pouch to carry handgrenades
Forgot to add: The US grenade vest was dated 1918 and I believe there are some reproductions. Seem to remember a British ten pocket grenade vest ?
I think you're correct about all you say RCS. I believe it should have a 'US' marking on it if it's US Army, but not sure if all are marked with the 'US' - A 1917-1918 date is the two years they were made for US production, and most have 1918 stamp. And there are reproductions out there. The repro's are pretty easy to pick out though. 100 years shows wear and age, even on the best material.
I've had a few pass through here in unused but vintage condition. They are light material, uncomfortable with only a few grenades, and I read they weren't popular --- as such there were many unused leftovers after WWI.
I had a lingering thought that I had seen these listed in documents someplace. I made a quick survey of "List of 1234 Concerns, Holders of Important Contracts with the Ordnance Dept." prepared by The Office of the Chief of Ordnance, Information Section, Administration Division, Corrected to October 15, 1918, and found a listing for manufacturer Langrock Brothers Co., Brooklyn, N.Y., and the only item listed is "Grenade aprons."
I recall reading somewhere that these "aprons" were intended for Mills bomb, MkI, and MkII hand grenades, or VB rifle grenades.
The document cited is at the National Archives, College Park, Record Group 156, Entry 36A, file 400.1552/1. I will provide a digital copy of this document for the cost of a DVR, shipping envelope, and shipping ($3). Very handy if you're trying to identify original equipment, or the contractor's full name from initials on the product. This list was apparently developed from the report to congress of contracts $100,000 or more which may be accessed at Google Booksif you care to wade through the document as it is quite lengthy, there is no index, and appears to have been randomly assembled, so there is no organization per se. Because of the cost limit not all contracts for items of equipment that are known to have been manufactured by war contractors and contracts are listed.
If you have items of field equipment marked with the initials of the contractors (WWI or WWII) I can probably identify the contractor and may be able to provide other information if available from the documents at hand.
Identified another manufacturer: Cluett Peabody & Co., Troy, NY, listed as contractor of "Haversacks - Grenade" and "Grenade Aprons"
The grenade haversacks were fairly simple padded construction with shoulder strap, and useful for many purposes, as a consequence few of them survived.
I can remember when there were bundles of these, in unissued condition, in the surplus stores. I believe that this was a late WW1 item, made in huge quantity, but which saw relatively little issuance and use. (Probably intended for the planned Spring 1919 offensive.) They were then placed in war reserve after the Armistice. The same thing happened to vast quantities of the BAR belts with the metal cup, and the right and left BAR bandoleers. When WW2 came, the BAR belts were taken out of storage and modernized by removing the metal cups and sewing regular pockets in their place. Unlike the BAR belts, the 11-pocket grenade aprons don't seem to have been issued in WW2. Eventually they were sold off as surplus in the late 1950's or early 60's. I have a new original in my collection, that I picked up for next to nothing.
No , they were issued in WW2 . Mostly Marine and PTO . Originally made for the VB style rifle grenade , which was obsolete by WW2 , they used them for handgrenades and shotgun ammo . Most pictures of these you see are on shotgun toting Marines . Not many were issued , though , so new ones are common .
Chris
After this thread was posted I started collecting information on the manufacturers of grenade aprons. Here is a consolidated listing for what it is worth:
Hall Hartwell & Co, Troy, NY
Messers Cluett, Peabody & Co., Troy, NY (marked C. P. & CO. \ NOV. 1918)
George P. Ide, Troy, NY (and grenade haversack)
Langrock Bros. Co., Brooklyn, NY
Once in awhile some interesting "coincidences" like that three of the manufacturers are listed as located in Troy, New York. (In the various reports of contracting information the location of where the work was performed i.e. where people were paid to perform the work is listed, not where the contractor was located) In researching manufacturers it is not uncommon for several manufacturers of similar products to be located in the same city. Haverhill, Massachusetts was home to several companies that manufactured sewn canvas equipment such as canteen covers. Gloversville, New York was home to several companies that manufactured gloves. In some cases the similarity of the products and markings, suggest that they were manufactured in the same facility although by different contractors. I think it is likely the contractors got together and placed similar bids with the intent of using shared facilities. The government had laws and rules that governed the distribution of contracts that were intended to equal opportunity, and in some cases provide for small business to be competitive for government spending. However it is apparent that contractors did some things to improve their competitiveness in bidding.
I feel that you are 100% correct Alexander with what I've found with gear in hand, and researched about it. There were many inventors/opportunists/etc near the last year of our involvement in WWI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander A
(We were only involved with WWI in Europe for a little over a year)
In action, the thinly constructed 'grenade apron' was almost useless, as was the BAR belts with the metal waist cup to place the BAR butt into a metal holder. Neither worked at all in real life and few US soldiers wanted them, so there were TONS manufactured in WWI that never saw any service and ended up in surplus in huge amounts up till today. I have picked up several brand new grenade vests over the years.. All 1900's dated, but in almost new condition. I tested one apron with only four inert grenades in the top pockets and it was unwearable with only four inert grenades. The thin pockets pulled way away uncomfortably in the thin vest and it was was piece of junk to me..... A lot of US WWI gear were the same way back then...
I have had fun researching WWI aircraft, etc, but there were a LOT of goofy ideas back then that didn't work at all.