I just inherited a #5 with matching numbers but the barrel is bent and pretty banged up. I've read they can be straightened and would like recommendations to some one that could take on this task. I would like to make a shooter out of it
Printable View
I just inherited a #5 with matching numbers but the barrel is bent and pretty banged up. I've read they can be straightened and would like recommendations to some one that could take on this task. I would like to make a shooter out of it
Looking at the practical side of life, it really all depends on what you mean by 'bent' and 'banged-up'. You can make a shooter out of something with a bent barrel and a bit banged up. But something in my bones tells me that you aren't a technical person somehow.........
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsglc4-1.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Well, as Peter says that takes a bit of skill...but they can be straightened. Since the eye examiners of Enfield aren't here, I mad a straightness gauge and went from there. Barrels are good material, except for .22's. They're soft like beer cans. Mostly. It would help if you knew how to do it in the first place, or you have someone on hand that does...? Looks like one that was run over. The front end wasn't burned was it?
No this is out of my realm would but like recommendations to someone I could send it too so they could fix it if it's even fixable
---------- Post added at 03:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------
No but it looks like someone hammered on it or was using it as a pry bar
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps3n5c-1.jpg
---------- Post added at 03:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:36 PM ----------
Idunno never restored a gun before but from what I have read a #5 with matching numbers is pretty rare so I figured this would be my first restore. Just not sure how to go about it figured if the barrel can't be fixed it will just be a wall hanger. Or maybe see if I can find another barrel down the road.
I'd love Peter to come back and have a look see. Is the barrel any good inside or just rough? Clean it out and see. If it's any less than perfect, I'd just rebarrel.
Recommend you contact forum member Brian Dick BDL LTD
That's a good point Vincent...I forgot about that. He's in S.C. so it's not that far to ship...really...
Believe it or not the inside looks good the rifling looks crisp
Still, maybe the best bet would be BDL Ltd for some refurb...
I would straighten that. It's fairly simple with a narrow No5 barrel although in service we'd just reploace it. We didn't have a GAUGE, testing, straightness of bore for the No4 and 5, it was all done by eye against a cast shadow.
But to explain HOW I'd go about it would take pages and pages and a well equipped engineering workshop. But I can definately say that a bench vice would most definately NOT feature in my barrel straightening vocabulary! But Roll, view, gently press, roll, view, gently press and so on for an hour or so and it'd come back. Although that is quite bad I have to say
The rusty/pitted condition was how a good percentage of them were in Malaya I can tell you. Constant rain and mangrove swamps are not good with steel. Bead blast, phosphate and paint, bake and oil dip will see it good for another 5 years there - and probably 100 years in your part of the world
Ok I feel better now that I no I have something work with. How much value difference is there keeping it original compared to not having matching numbers? Is there more Valu in referb or better to leave it alone.
If you could get someone to straighten it you wouldn't spend much I think. IF you can find someone... A new barrel might be a different story. As for original value...what's it worth right now? To any collector or shooter?
There is only one true way to find out what your rifle is worth..... Auction! That's the worth that the last two men standing put on it.
Some people want a rifle like yours that looks like it's been there, done that etc. Others want something new in the box. I personally don't care one way or the other just so long as it shoots straight and a tiny bit better that I can. You can't ask for much more than that!
Incidentally, that rifle looks just like some of the well worn and used Rifles from the Far East. I'd like some photos of any markings on the butt as that's where we used to mark them with our main workshop identifiers.
I don’t what the cost of straightening a barrel would be. I’ve never had it done. To do it correctly takes skill, time and special tool like the one below.
Attachment 56583
Attachment 56584
I have heard of it being done on a modified English Wheel, but I have no idea how well that works.
The cost of replacing the barrel will probably be quite high compared to its value. I see nice all original ones retail between $500 and $600 at gun shows here. It’s a limited market and anything over $500 is going to take a long time to sell. Most folks looking to get into a military surplus rifle will buy a $120 91/30 that comes with all the accessories and uses cheap readily available ammunition.
It’s worth fixing if you’re going to keep it. There’s probably not a lot to be gained fixing it if you’re going to sell it.
An online auction like gunbroker will probably get you the most for it.
I´ve got pictures somewhere of workers at the Royal German Spandau Armoury inspecting rifle barrels visually and then using a hammer to straighten those that were bent. And I once saw a film of a Kalashnikov factory where the barrels were cut to length off a very large drum on which the material had been delivered. Why not try and straighten your No 5 barrel using pressure between wooden blocks in a vise and inspect it against a strong light between each attempt. It might even shoot quite well. Don´t think you´ve got much to lose.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsauer-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpssp3o-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpskcby-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zps0q9o-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsc4q6-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsvjih-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsorti-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpszxna-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpslke3-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpshd2y-1.jpg
No numbers on the stock but here is all the markings I can find
---------- Post added at 11:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 PM ----------
I have no intentions on selling it but don't wont to spend more then it is worth restoring it. I've got some one I'm confident in that says he can true it up so I'm going to let him have at it. He's done a lot of work for me he's my goto guy for all my metal and mill work. Figure I'm not out anything if It doesn't work it will hang on the wall. I think my goal for this rifle is to try to make it into a shooter. I like the aged looked and think I'm going to keep it the way it is.
Barrel straightening is a bit like straightening scaffold tubes. Not that I have ever strasightened a scaffold tube but I have straightened a barrel using the scaffold tube principle. Because of the safety implications, scaffold tubes can only be straightened by competent and authorised (?) people who have the right kit.
Identify the START of the bend. Identify the END of the bend - and mark. These are the 'anvil points'. Press at the centre of the area. Do NOT do ANYTHING outside this area because it ain't damaged there! MANY more pages and much more than that of course but that's a start
Theres a good photo of a Bren barrel being straightened in the BGS. I'd have a go at it but as Peter said, I wouldn't go at it with a vice, I find a vice doesn't have the power or control that the correct press would have.
The guy I have doing it has a full metal shop. Press cnc you name he has the tools for the job. I'm confident he can do it. The best part is I've been playing with water transfer printing and he has a cpl AR lowers he wants me to do in trade.
We'll want to see the end result of course...
Of course!
If he has a full workshop facility then maybe you could start by turning a 4" / 6" long .301" bar to use as a Gauge, testing, straightness of bore. We didn't use these* and it will be a GOOD benchmark for you both on the basis that neither of you will be best desrribed as 'barrel viewers' using shadow as the true Armourers were. Apologies if you both are of course, but a long exact gauge is a good start. Internally thread it at one end and you can use it to accurately find the start and end of the curve
* That's not exactly true as we did use a long gauge for testing Sten, Sterling, Owen etc and revolver barrels as they were too short to view properly for straightness
I'll bring this to his attention. I'm not sure of the method he plans on using. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.
---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:35 PM ----------
Want to thank all of you for being so helpful this is all out of my relm but appreciate you willing to help out and not beating me down for lack of knowledge in this area. First goal getting it to shoot from there I will decide weather I'll go for a restore or leave it pure as it is.
Do you remember the measurements of the gauge, Peter?Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I did the exact same thing Peter is speaking of and I had to make the gauge specific to the barrel I was doing. I have a straightness gauge for .556 from Diemaco but the .44 and .30 cals I had to custom turn. They need to be tight. Then as he says, drill and tap a hole at one end for a good quality cleaning rod...they need to be about 6" long to ensure you can eliminate the bend.
I will have a look at the EMER's Vince. Leave it for a couple of days........
Just imagine the pleasure of finding it might even shoot better´n many of the more `exotic´ specimens to be found at the local range.
Well I handed it off and hoping for the best.
It'll be fine.
After it's straightened, I would stress relieve the barrel....Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
What will that do? Reason I ask is I've done a number of barrels of different calibers and never (stress relieved) did more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
I was going to ask the same as BAR LE. Not the steel as it's only a tad more than good mild steel, thick walled tube and thinking at a bit of a tangent, it'll get pretty stressed every time it's fired..... JM and Breaky, you're the metallurgists. What do you both say?
My local guys refer to significant walking zeros when a barrel has been straightened and not stress relieved afterwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Most to all of the custom barrel makers I know stress relieve their barrels in some way (I know of several different methods are used) after completing operations.
One fad from a few years ago was cryo (cold) treating barrels, new and old to reduce fouling, (allegedly) increase barrel life and mean accuracy, over "hot" stress relieving.
One local barrel maker "seasons" his material by storing it outside (in the weather) for at least 1 full seasonal cycle before he will deep hole drill or rifle the barrel. after boring he will heat stress relieve the barrel blank, then he cuts the rifling. This gentleman uses single point cut rifling and is extremely well known in the schutzen (and benchrest) circles.
I've also seen several custom barrels which were not stress relieved after manufacture which split (thankfully not during firing). I believe 2 of the barrels were from the same barrel maker (who retired @ 7 years ago) who has an good accuracy reputation. One of the 2 split during final contouring, and the other split at an unknown time from the muzzle (about 28") to the threads held captive in the receiver.
I'm not a metallurgist, but I do work in heat treating...
Still, I'm thinking since it's a #5 and they don't have a stellar reputation for holding zero, and it's not exactly a match rifle...he can probably skip it...
Can you give some basic DIY instructions on how to do that please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
Yes I would be interested how this is done also I'm sure it will be a while before he gets it done. He's good but takes for ever.