Long Branch DP Rifle

Hallo to everyone from a new Forum member. If anyone can help identify a Rifle i have then i would be very grateful. It is a 1942 Long Branch Nr4 mk1*. Original Serial Nr 14L8395. At some point she has been converted into a DP Rifle. New SN is 4414. Bolt and Receiver are stamped "DP". The stock is also stamped "DP" in front of the magazine. The chamber is milled and pinned. The barrel is milled about half way down. It is stamped "SARCO. INC" on the left rear of the receiver. Traces of white paint are on the butt and front Stock. The Bolt head is ground at a 45% angle and the firing pin hole is filled.
I would like to ask if this is a proper DP Rifle, or has someone made this up. As it is not de-act stamped by a proof House, what is the legality of it in the UK?
looking forward to your replies. Paul.

From your description it very much looks as if it IS a De-Act to UK requirements, but I'll let a UK RFD confirm.

All of the 'work' done on the rifle is to De-Act requirements - to "convert" a rifle to DP varied from Country to Country by generally involved 'clipping' the firing pin, and maybe welding up the firing pin hole - I think that the UK DP specs were to drill a hole thru' the action

DP is not a recognisable definition by the Home Office, or the Firearms Acts so it is either a 'live' rifle or a "De-Act" - what is it being sold as ? (or what have you bought it as ?)

UK De-Act requirements for Bolt Action Rifles :

Bolt Action Rifles - current legislation requires that the barrel is slotted for the majority of its covered length and has a hardened steel rod welded in the bore, the barrel is pinned and welded to the receiver, or the above slot is taken right through the receiver, the chamber entrance is pinned and welded or the barrel rod extends right to the chamber entrance, the bolt is cut back at around 45 degrees and the firing pin is ground back. There is no difference between post and pre 95 deactivation standards. Both types have full working actions and can be fully stripped apart from the barrel. March 2011 Update - The specification for bolt action rifles has been tightened as follows: firing pin channels must be sealed with weld on the bolt face.

You might find this of use.
https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...earms-2010.pdf
Without the Deactivation Proof mark you could have legal problems in the U.K. There has been a discussion about this on other threads about older 'Deactivations' but without getting too technical / legal I would avoid buying this unless you can see the DA marks on the Bolt, Barrel and Receiver

A DP rifle as per the EMER and is designated the RIFLE Drill Purpose, L54A1, (which I drew up) easily exceeds the deactivation spec laid down albeit in one subtly different way. And the only difficulty you might have is that WITH a certificate and a proof-house mark the prosecution would have to prove any case being bought to the court. WITHOUT such things the onus of proof is upon you that it is incapable of discharging this that and the other.

Can't say about any other DP spec of course but a few photos of the bare body and barrel might help

Thanks for the info guys. I already own the Rifle. It resides safely in my Armourers Shop.I will get some close up photos taken on Monday. The only photos i have at present are these.
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7ebf35d8.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1c2694b1.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psf638c0a7.jpg

Very interesting that you drew up the specs Peter. Fellow REME Armourer and all that.

In 1989 I bought several Long Branch "DP" rifles from Sarco. I believe I paid $49.00 ea for them. They were No 4 mk1* with 2 groove barrels and all matching numbers. They had a big "DP" electro penciled on the receiver, and white paint bands on the stocks. Other than the stocks being beat up pretty badly, there was nothing wrong, mechanically, with the rifles. After cleaning the grass and dirt out of the barrels and actions, the bores were pristine. Sarco advertised these rifles as being from New Zealand. I sold one to a friend and kept one for myself. It was the most accurate Enfield I've ever owned. Unfortunately due to divorce I had to sell it off.

The bad news is that your rifle isn't an L59!

If your rifle is a UK deac then it will have been marked as such by one of the Proof Houses. To spot the mark, it will be the one that is bright and fresh. If you can find the mark, post a picture of it here for ID.

BTW, if that brass Very Pistol is also one of yours, you should be aware that in the UK they are Section 1 Firearms and so they need to be held on a Firearm Certificate or be deactivated.

The Webley Flare Pistol is a deact. What do you reckon my rifle is then Peter?

I can't tell you what it is as I was asleep during my psychic lesson at school except from the one photo that I can see and your desription! It looks/sounds like a bog standard rifle that has been a non standard DP for some nation at some time. Gone to the US where it was imported by Sarco and then made it's way home to the UK. Been sort-of deactivated and.........

Just err on the safe side is my advice until its exact status can be verified. If it was an L59 as per the old EMER then you'd be home and dry as they have already been deemed as blah blah blah and so on. On the othjer hand you could just make it into an L59 but while they are iconic, collectable and being an 'official' variant of the Lee Enfield family and worthy of a place in any true collection, they look naff - with white bands and cutaway sections to show their inert status. Incidentally, the L59's also kept their original serial numbers in order to keep the accounting/WOCS/SSR registers straight. (unless they were allocated a 'lost number' number during the BW conversion programme).

Many thanks for the information Peter.

There is a short article on the DP L59 rifles with pictures somewhere on the forum if you need ideas

Here are some pics of it.
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9b1a2e81.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2a71bf26.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psd47a5ee5.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps105dcb25.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps16e28bd6.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps878260a5.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps67efdcfd.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psa82f9212.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2feeff8c.jpg

---------- Post added at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:41 PM ----------

More pics.
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psb233ccff.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps933da14a.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps48197824.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps285bda23.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psa508b60f.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psbab62463.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...psf0d21186.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1eee1160.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9e9997e8.jpg
http://i1343.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4567686d.jpg

Just looks like a DP from some nation deacted to the standard UK deact spec to me but maybe one of the RFD's can say yea or nay. If it's to the spec then it's good to go regardless of whether it has a cert or not

Thanks Peter.

Hey I have one of those tool boxes ......:D ( but with a lot less tools)

Do you get yours for free too?

Was it ever the case that rifles were marked as Drill Purpose not because of some mechanical defect(s), but because they were "obsolete" or simply no longer required for "active" service?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

Was it ever the case that rifles were marked as Drill Purpose not because of some mechanical defect(s), but because they were "obsolete" or simply no longer required for "active" service?

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If you have a look in the library you'll see a long article on DP rifles (by Peter Laidler) - Here is an excerpt, but you need to read it all to get the full context.

"...........But, let’s say the DP stocks aren’t available, then authority will be issued FROM THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE no less, for such weapons to be made available. Ordnance stores would then select from returned weapons that are deemed to be ‘ZF’ (that’s an Armourers technical explanation that I won’t go into) or BER (Beyond Economic Repair) to select the required amount for conversion to DP specification.

Now, if the required amount cannot be made from the ZF and BER stocks, then the remainder will simply be converted from standard war stocks. You will see from this, that while on the face of it, some 30 years down the line that your bright and shining No1 or No4 rifle LOOKS bright and shining, under the bright and shiny surface might be lurking a metallurgical nightmare ……………… Let me give you an example........."

Tool box was free but..... James has taken my soul..........

So the answer is "yes", rifles could be re-marked as "DP" even though serviceable if such was required. From the New Zealand Long Branch No.4s and Indian Ross MkIIIs etc. it seems that other countries did so at times also?