Newly Manufactured M1 Carbines By MKS Supply - The Firearm Blog
Is this the Place I've heard around here and other Places, Thanks
Frank
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Newly Manufactured M1 Carbines By MKS Supply - The Firearm Blog
Is this the Place I've heard around here and other Places, Thanks
Frank
At around $1100 they are a little to pricey for me.
Quote:
MSRP:
Three Inland M1 Carbine models are just now available:
•M1 1944 Wood stocked original design without bayonet lug……….MSRP $1049.00
•M1 1945 wood stocked original (above) design with bayonet lug…MSRP $1049.00
•M1A1Paratrooper. Original design folding heavy wire stock……….MSRP $1179.00
Al
Way pricey....so i guess 2 so so AR 's or 1 very nice AR....are they seeing all these Auction Sites and finding out how many people are into M1 Carbines, Thanks
Frank
Yikes! MKS is the marketing company that handles Chiappa and High Point firearms in this country. For $1100, I could buy a correct late Inland or Winchester.
We had some guys around here preening about these new ones. Sorry, not interested. I'd just as soon build another M4gery as pay that for an imitation. Or as Jim says, buy a correct one...
I thought the blogs about the "New Inland" on that page were interesting reading. I can't tell a whole lot from this link I found, but I'm going to keep an eye on it. - Bob
http://www.inland-mfg.com/
Why do you guys keep injecting the AR15 into the discussion? What kind of logic is spending $1000 on building an AR15 because the new Inland carbine is too high? That really doesn't make any sense at all.
Maybe they would rather have 15 AR's than 1 'M'!!!GK
Not really. Just easier to feed here in Canada. I'd love to find a good carbine but there's not many originals here. Most have gone into collections years ago and won't be coming out any time soon. These new productions are handled by the people that handle Hi-Point carbines? Then I suspect they'll be just about as good...Also we have a 5 rd mag law here in Canada. Have any of you tried to have fun with a carbine with 5 rd mags? I have, it ain't so much fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by shadycon
I love the 'History' of the carbines, etc I have collected... It's like holding a live connection with the past.
I've never been interested much in commercial copies anyway, but that price seems crazy to me.
You nail it on the head, im fascinated with the M1, when i hold it, it take me back to what our big brothers carried and had to fight with instead of a M16A2. These are totally 2 different beasts. Since i have a couple of M1's '45 and 78 Iver and even thougn i have my Grandfathers Winchester M1, I never played with it or opened it, now i can open this one and take it apart and learn how to do everything to it and put it back, troubleshoot it, now i feel confident in opening my Grandfathers to see what it has and plus there are a few people here that are always willing to help. Thanks
Frank
I believe the price to be too high as well. I must say, I'd like to get my hands on one just to critique it and do a side by side comparison. Then there is the question of are these going to be artificially aged and potentially introduced into the collector segment for some unknowing or uneducated new collector to purchase?
They mention:
The only saving grace may be the following:Quote:
These newly manufactured M1 Carbines are 100 percent American-made with 100 percent American parts. These are faithful copies of the original Inland Manufacturing carbines, right down to part construction and stampings. They even include the arsenal-stamped stock markings known as cartouches!
Although I don't doubt for one minute that these "markings" could be defeated. Just saying ;)Quote:
In fact, these carbines are so precisely copied from the original specifications that the company marks the underside of the barrel and the inside of the stock of these current models to prevent potential fraudsters from passing these new carbines as mint WWII originals, or using these new-production parts to “upgrade” original models (these markings are not visible unless the action is removed from the stock).
I can see where there might be a market niche for a "brand new" carbon copy Inland M1 carbine, particularly as it is American made. I do wonder how they got around the brand copyright. If the quality is reasonably good I will bet you they will sell a few at a verey healthy profit and then start edging the price down to keep them moving. I don't think guys like us are their target market demographic, at least not at the current MSRP. 'Grandpa', who carried one in WWII, is probably gone now. But, I'll bet there are a few aging well-heeled baby boomers out there who know little about collecting the original carbines, and don't really care, but figure a brand new one just exactly like 'Daddy' carried in the war, and told them about throughout their whole lives, will be prettier and safer to shoot. I wish the manufacturer success. ChipS
One thing about a GI carbine, you can wonder where it has been, who held it, what did it do. You can watch real footage of WWII action and wonder "is that MY carbine?". I will stick to GI carbines unless a new one of quality is much lower in price just for a truck gun.
here is a link to their web site
Inland Manufacturing
"Veteran owned" - that's new since I posted the link a couple days ago. - Bob
Read the comments below the article, it's mentioned they're made by Inland MFG., Dayton Ohio.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipS
Is this the same MKS that had their M14-clones & M14 welded receivers seized by ATF in 2001-2002? Run by Mike Kelly? Hmmm, I'd like to know before sending in my deposit.
But, keep in mind, Fulton Armory is asking (& getting) around $1,500 for their "new" M1 carbines, but they use USGI receivers & USGI parts.
Note that the MKS literature doesn't use the word "forged" when describing the parts. I don't see how they can sell an M1 carbine for only $1,000 if they don't use cast parts.
Neal
EDIT: Vintage, well, yes, you are exactly right; FA is selling a rebuilt carbine for a lot of money. But, they are a few miles from where I live, & I've been inside their shop; their products are built one at a time by a skilled gunsmith, & every part is checked carefully & they really are top quality rifles. If you check the online auctions, most offered are beat up, or well used, or Korean imports, or Mixed Parts Mongrels; there are a lot of folks out there who don't know what to look for in a USGI carbine, & they know that the FA carbine will be safe, accurate, & durable.
I've often wondered about that. So, what it boils down to is the Fulton's carbines are really nothing more than refinished recent put togethers at near double the price of an honest as it left service rebuild mixmaster with original finish, yes? Or am I missing something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Myers
Careful there Neal, it don't take much to set the little guy off. It's gettin kinda sensitive in it's old age.:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Neal Myers
Seriously though, even they have the one thing that the majority of us milsurp collectors are interested in most.............HISTORY.
What's the story on that hand guard? - Bob
I have a 1943 carbine that I enjoy taking to the range, but don't shoot too many rounds through it so I don't tear it up. A new one would be great to shoot but I'll
agree price is a bit steep.
I doubt if any of us can shoot enough rounds through a USGI M1 carbine to tear it up. Unless it was a mint, 100% correct collector, I would, and do, shoot the heck out of them! They were made to fight wars, so I doubt if we could be too hard on them.
The original handguard had issues so I picked this one up at a gunshow couple years ago. Looks to be a light sap wood walnut, possibly Vietnam ear. Guy had a large box full for $5 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
You should have bought a few more of them! - Bob
I'm afraid you may be completely correct Chip. When I read of the faked "aging" it made me sick. What is the real point unless to deceive in the future, or for this 'click' of buyers to have what looks like authentic regardless of the inflated prices when they know it is not authentic but they still don't care at all... When they are willing to pay TOP prices for a known faked/fantasy piece and if you did just a little work you can find a REAL, Historical Inlands for the same price, it really makes me wonder.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipS
Are you familiar with Mitchel's Mausers?
At the end of WWII Russia kept every arm they could possibly find from both the Axis and their then allies. They even kept and stockpiled brand new 'Lend Lease' weapons from the USA from back then and just started selling it back to us in recent years...
The Russians stockpiled many, many thousands of the basic German firearm from WWII, including the old WWI vintage design K98 bolt action Mauser. In the first years of WWII, the Russians didn't even have enough personal weapons to even supply their own soldiers, so almost half were sent off to battle completely 'naked' of any defensive arms and they were told to try to find a weapon in the battlefields from dead soldiers from both sides.
Sorry about the History lessen, but it needed to be included as a 'point' --- After WWII the Russians HORDED every weapon they could. They even kept captured and outdated 'Lend Lease' aircraft LONG after they were of any practical use. They took all the thousands and thousands of K98 Mausers they captured and and put them through a HUGE, crude rebuild program... They were stripped to pieces, most all parts refinished crudely, NO parts kept together and most were serialized, stocks stripped and then slavered with an ugly red stain, then put into huge storage facilities where they were seldom even thought about...
The Russian Army was supplied/armed mostly with cheap and easy to make, very deadly AK47's not long after WWII had ended.... They had no need for the old tech K98 Mausers, but they kept HUGE numbers in storage as if they NEVER wanted to run out of guns again. Russia supplied many old bolt action German K98's from their storage to the NVA and VC early in the Vietnam Wars when the French were still trying to control their Asian colony from communists way back then. When the USA was in the war after the French retreated, they still came across some of these old German K98's but most of the North had AK47's manufactured by several Soviet related countries.
In recent years the Russians sold many, many old rebuilt K98's back to the USA. The market was flooded with these old "RC" (Russian Capture) K98's as there were/are known now. They were rebuilt, refinished with Russian bluing, stocks covered in ugly red stain that would only look normal on an old backyard fence, plus Soviet rebuild markings all over them, and they had (have) very little value as far as collectables.... 'Mitchel's Mausers' bought these rebuilds by the thousands and they refinished them, made serial numbers match, turned many into "sniper rifles" using fake parts, etc.... Mitchel's even changed the whole look of their faked K98's -- They have polished bolts to a raw and incorrect silver gleam, as with several other parts. "Mitchel Mauser ads" have showed up all over just about every magazine I read over the past 15 years. It's known all over the World that they are FAKED, but they are still being sold at unbelievably high prices.
I just don't get it why anyone would want a FAKE when there are so many REAL guns around for the same price. It only takes a little work and research to get the REAL THING.
The sad reality is we're a rare bunch that actually cares about the history and not just the looks of these arms. I see it all the time at my club, I acquired both my M1917 and No4 both pristine, off a guy who got caught up in a "keep up with the jones" thing between retired guys at the club a few years back.
Harlan:
Maybe I shouldn't have said 'carbon copy'. I would never condone anyone actaully counterfeiting a collectable, be it a carbine or anything else. When I posted, my thought was about a clean, newly manufactured carbine that very closely resembled an original and that many lay people out there could buy and shoot, maybe only once or twice, feeling safe and secure before hanging on it the wall in the den to admire and talk about. Perhaps like one notch up from the better commercial carbines we have seen in the past. I would hope the new 'Inland' does not accurately replicate the markings on the original because the thieves will eventually try to sell it to the unsuspecting as an original. This is how it is, was and always will be when it becomes profitable.
I have seen Mitchell's Mausers. They are almost laughable to me but perfectly represent the buyer's niche I had in mind. They shine like the proverbial 'pewter dollar' fresh out of the mint. But, they are now clean, pretty and safe. Like the new 'Inland' carbine (and the Fulton rebuilds), most buyers won't care that they are not 'unmolested', 'correct' and 'matching'. Most true collectors will not buy them but they were not rebuilt for the true collector market. I honestly don't have a problem with this - they are here, they are real and I think they will generate interest and support for sincere conservation and true collecting in some of the buyers. Additionally, I would much prefer a Mitchell rifle, or a new 'Inland', be kicked around in the field and not properly maintained by an unconcerned or uneducated owner rather than a valuable collector piece. The fakers will continue to deceive, one way or the other.
We have debated fake parts and put-together carbines here on the Forum for years. I think Neal Meyers said it best when he said something like 'in twenty years the fakes will be so prevalent that most people won't know the difference'. I'm not sure I agree entirely, I think the real collectors will always know, but many here disagree with me. Unless and until we become a nation governed by the rule of law again we will never stop the fakers. As long as the manufacturer produces a quality product, does not try to deceive the buyer and makes a reasonable effort to prevent aftermarket deception, I will support them - particularly since it's USA production. Semper Fi, ChipS
Well said. I just realized that this is the crux of my reasoning re the 'Mitchells' and 'Inlands' out there. We are different and we are few. I think we should try to look at this through the eyes of the masses who will support these kind of business ventures - good people that we all have known, but definitely a little different than us. Hopefully, many of these casual buyers will become seriously intrested collectors and conservators. ChipSQuote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
To further my point take RickB's barn wood. Most people would see a pile of scrap where we see an unbelievable treasure trove of history and WISH that pile of "scrap" could talk and we would gladly except the opportunity to dig through it along with Rick.
I look at myself as a caretaker, doesn't mean I don't enjoy them, but I don't do this for the money or the prestige, I do it because all the stuff we discuss here absolutely fascinates me,, the "new" stuff just doesn't.
When I arrived in Vietnam in May of 66, if you were shot it was probably with a 98K or a carbine. Later when the NVA started down the trail in force they brought the Chinese type 56 AKs and Simonovs with them.
Gun people come in several sizes and brands: Some don't give a hoot about history and love the next great thing. These types buy plastic and sheet metal guns. Some have to have the newest and most expensive, they buy commemoratives and Perazzis. Some jump without learning about what they are buying. This is the niche that buys Mitchels and these new carbines. Not owning any genuine military arms they think that they are like other guns, new is good, old is bad. Then we have us, I'm one of us. My newest gun is 40+ years old, after that they are around 60 years old and up. I appreciate the fact that they don't make guns like they used to. I enjoy them as pieces of industrial art that will NEVER be done again. Having been in a war only heightens that interest as I saw so many different things still in use. Genuine carbines are still out there and the NRA carbines are as good as any of them. There are gems waiting to be found and the story of how and who made them is an example of what America could and would do in an emergency. 6.5M carbines and 5+M Garands and every part interchanges. No other country in the world could have pulled that off. Buying an ersatz carbine seems insulting regardless of the price. If they are hard to find, which they are not, just have one, but make it a real one. My biggest problem with the new ones is that most are using up scarce spare parts that are needed for the genuine examples.
Reminds me of a Tom Hanks quote.
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it."
The way I see it same thinking here. Good carbines are hard to find, if it wasn't everyone would have one.
Jim, that was a pretty good movie, " A League of ther Own" Im glad i bought my first Inland, i was going to selll it , but i will never get rid of it, not after War Baby.
If they are made close to the originals, Quality wise, and have good fit and finish then it could be a good start for people new to carbines. What other choices do they have? Auto Ord/Khar???? older Universals etc??? GI [ good, rebuilt, faked, beat to death or molested ] ? GK
Its almost an honor to the Carbine that people try to emulate it. Though I am not a collector, I have had three "original" carbines since 1980. First was an unmolested Winchester with Type I band and sight, high wood stock in 1982ish. I didn't know better and traded it to get one with the "cool' adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug. Next was an original, as issued 1943 Inland 95% finish that I sold about a year and a half ago to raise money when I was underemployed. The funny thing was, I took half the money to get a "shooter" mixmaster, and ended up with my third original, a transitional Winchester with Type II band and sights. I am not a collector, though, and at this point in my life really did want a "shooter" to pass on to my kids. The Winchester found a home with a collector, and I took half that money and found my 6 digit Inland post war rebuild (probably a 60s DCM/NRA weapon) that is a true shooter with an Underwood barrel with an ME of "0", upgrades and highwood stock. If I shoot the heck out of it (which I do), it doesn't matter if something needs replaced. All is good.
Im going to buy one, why not, im still going to buy another one like a 43 or 44 anyway, but it would be nice to have when my Nephews comes down to stay with us and just let them shoot it, but that will be after i put a couple of hundreds rounds througn it first. .
This year I've had help building 3 New shooters.
Rockola
Fulton
SA all new mix of Original Parts & New Receivers.
All have different looks. YES NO it was't CHEAP.
Its a nice feeling to have to choose which 1 to shoot.:dancingbanana::thup:
As mentioned earlier, you can find an original for the same or less money. I don't see these going up in value, where as the GI carbines have been doubling in value about every eight to ten years. Choices, choices, choices.
If a person wanted a shooter, Plainfield and Iver Johnsons are fairly cheap, lots of GI parts, 100% interchangeability, and are really decent shooters. Kahr/Auto Ordnance on the other hand cost more than a GI and have their issues, not to mention they are not 100% interchangeable for replacement parts. The cost they want for these new carbines is even more than Auto Ordnance. For that kind of money, you could get a REALLY nice USGI one.
Your Right about that, my 78 Iver Johnson , the one my father bought me in 78 is still a great shooter, ofcourse its been rehauled a couple of times , but it still shoots great.
Frank
The Inland website has been updated again. They've got FAQ's up now. - Bob
http://inland-mfg.com/About-Inland/FAQ.html
Frequently Asked Questions
Here are some of the most frequently asked questions that we receive.
Are the new Inland M1 Carbines manufactured by MKS Supply or Hi Point Firearms?
Who actually manufactures the new Inland M1 Carbine?
Why should I purchase a new Inland M1 Carbine instead of an original M1 Carbine for less money?
Why is the new Inland M1 Carbine more accurate than the original?
Does the new Inland M1 Carbine have a forged receiver like the originals?
Are surplus military components used for the new Inland M1 Carbine?
Where can I find Inland Manufacturing products?
Their answers in the link I posted above. - Bob
I think the jury's still out on this one. Some of the answers kind of sound a little like Mandarin.Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
I hope they sell a bunch. The more folks that buy from them leave that crappy old GI carbine for us.
I know they were importers of Turkish shotguns for awhile, IIRC.
Most of the original G.I. originals I see these days are going inn the $800 to $1200 at the shows. All mix masters or dubious quality probably all bought from the CMP for around 5 bills several years ago. That's in No. Ohio. other parts of the country there is a much lower availability. I have a cousin that searched high and low for one and settled for a Universal. I have seen (not shot) several Kahr's and they look nice. If the new Inlands fill a niche then more power to them. I have a '43 Inland that I only shoot a few times a year. I find it finicky at best but it's 8 years older than I am and my grandkids think I'm prehistoric.
Oh and Hi Points may be inexpensive but mine are reliable. I've never had a problem with the 9 and the problems with the .45 were made right. Oh and the .45 was one of the first in that cal. to hit the market (growing pains?) and I shoot it a lot.
Here's a link to some recent updates to the Inland website. - Bob
http://inland-mfg.com/News-and-Events/news.html
One of the links on the new Inland website will lead you to this article where you can see some pretty good pictures of the new guns. Be sure to click to see the enlarged pics. I see some poor fitting parts here and there - probably will be attributed to being pre-production or prototype guns." Look for the sling that wouldn't go on the right way. - Bob
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/inla...irth-old-name/
I can't see much detail in the site photos but from the get-go that standard (not para) stock looked ridiculous. I can forgive the semi-pot belly but you would think they would get a LOT closer to original in the wrist & comb, if nothing else but by sub-contracting with Boyd. Is that an 'AI' on the right side of the Type 2 barrel band? Future reviews will be interesting but I wonder what is happening to all of the left coast Chinese parts that nobody is buying. ChipS
That does look a bit like AI on that band. It looks like the band doesn't fit right, or is loose - I think it would fly apart if you fired it. The nose of both stocks have a strange look, too - and it almost looks like the handguard rivets are in backwards like the Italian repros. Is the front sight pin split or solid? - Bob
I have to admit, that is one terrible looking stock. Chiappa 22 Carbines have more correct stocks!
Well, those of us in the know, and who are collectors, know that buying an original arsenal carbine is much better in the long run. They can still be found in my area for about $650. Import marked, like Blue Sky, can be found for even less. I had rather have a nice Blue Sky, and some are OK, than a replica.
ARMSLIST - For Sale: Extensive Blue Ribbon M1 Carbine Collection
Anyone like to go half.
Frank
Jes*s Frank...you must have been the Commandant of the Marines to have a pension that'll cover half of that. It would be nice though, I'm just afraid we'd never agree on who got what.
For three and a half million you'd think they could do better than 3 lousy pictures of pictures.
You'd think...but what the H#ll...let's just jump on this! They'll be OK, won't they?
That's all Armslist allows. This came up awhile back.I wonder how many carbines in all.
It would of been nice to have been the Commandant, i bet from that PICTURE and after an audit, i bet it would go for a Million, i can go half on that, just sell all our Real Estate that lets me allow to live this Wonderful Life. LOL but then I will have to go find a job at 50.
Frank
Trust me on this, you don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
Oh yeah i trust you Jim, i wont and don't need to find a job at 50. But if we could do it, i would be kind enough to let you pick the most value ones, im not a collector, i just love to have nice ones that shoots everytime i use it. Like the last one i bought, also i will send you some pics of the newest one i bought, but like i said to you in PM, i will never post one again, Thanks
Frank
Seems the newly manufactured M1 carbines by MKS Supply could eventually lead to more reproduction parts being let into the market. I wonder if they have any unmarked Type II barrel bands for sale.
Inland Manufacturing's 1945 M1 Carbine - American Rifleman Mobile
Now theres more news about the Private Owned Gun Manufacturer Inland Mfg., L.L.C. in my latest issue of American Rifleman which also on there Website telling you more news of this New Inland.
Totally different from what they first said when they came out to the Public about this Copy.
Frank, I'm missing what's "totally different" from what we've been seeing on the Inland website. - Bob
IIRC they said forged receivers in the original press release. As for the stock, "OMG that's ugly!" You would think for the price, they could at least get that right. Why not get Boyd's like CMP???
I actually had the opportunity to inspect both the standard carbine and the M1A1 at the OGCA show last weekend. I also talked to the guy who runs the company. I have to say that I'm impressed with what I saw. The standard Inland is a "copy" of the late production guns with the M2 mag catch and bayonet lug. It appears to be very well made. I'd love to have the chance to shoot one. There are a couple of incongruities in the stock that give away the fact that it isn't original and the serial numbers start abovethe highest known serial # of the original Inlands so that it is obvious that the receivers are NOT WWII production. The same stock "flaws" are present on the M1A1 as well. The M1A1 is also well made and uses the late stock as its model. Both use an adjustable rear sight. The company has actually purchased the rights to the Inland name, so they can legitimately use it on their carbines. Barrels are well made and spec very close to the originals. I understand that 2 inch 100 yd groups are the norm with these barrels. All parts are supposed to be fully interchangeable with the originals. While I agree that the price is a bit high, I think the quality is there and they would make very good shooters and possibly competition guns. BTW, he was displaying the new carbines right beside some originals. Most people couldn't tell the difference. I had to look very closely to spot the "errors". All I can say is that he's done a good job.
Jim, thank you very much for this informative assessment of these carbines. From it, it seems they got it right :) This might be an alternative for reenactors, albeit an expensive one.