M1 Restoration of old dried up Leather (Bayonets & Slings)

cThe National WWII Museum | New Orleans: Give: Preservation of Artifacts Bayonets and Slings

I was searching for a good way to keep the Bayonet Leather Handle from getting worse than what it looks likes right now.

Basic Preservation of Leather Artifacts

Leather is indeed a difficult item to preserve; care should be taken to store in medium humidity and moderate temperature. Generally speaking, storing it inside your home is suitable.

Avoid displaying leather items in direct sunlight or bright light. If the leather is dirty or moldy, clean it with saddle soap.Allow the item to dry in the shade.If the item feels overly dry or stiff, you may wish to oil it with neat’s-foot oil. Be sure to use only pure neat’s-foot oil, not neat’s-foot compound, which contains petroleum byproducts. Never use petroleum products (or anything that does not list its ingredients) on your leather. Anything that is put on leather is there to stay--beware of creating problems.Most leather will stiffen over time; this is generally not a problem, as historic items should not be used. Take time now, while the leather is pliable, to support the item in a displayable manner.....


Frank

What's the issue with using petroleum products on leather?

Any oils affect leather and when it's in leather it will always be in there, theres some ingredients in petroleum that deteriorates leather and if your trying to keep your dried up leather from geting worse, then i think its a bad idea.

Frank

...but this is a serious topic and somebody who KNOWS FROM LONG PERSONAL EXPERIENCE how to treat leathers (plural) should weigh in here. I am not an expert. I put common househiold ('3 in 1' brand as I recall) oil on a NOS leather .45 ammo pouch (and my baseball glove) 50 years ago and today that pouch (and my glove) is as stong and viable as the day it was made. My uncle (WWII US Navy PO, now deceased) put 'neatsfoot oil' (he recalled) on his cousin's (WWII US Navy officer, deceased) 1911A1 .45 service holster less than 5 years ago and and passed the .45 and holster to me last year. The pistol is like new and the holster is of the consistency of a rotting green hide, only barely solid. I'm not proposing that petroleum oil, neatsfoot oil or any other treatment should or should not be put on leather but when you do it you better know what the hell you're doing because I know the damage can be fast and irreversible. For many years out of fear I only used saddle soap and for the past several years I also apply Pecard's leather dressing to my GI leather. Pecard's seem to have a good rep in the fraternity and so far so good. I don't know what else to do and I do listen to other's experiences whenever I can. I think leather is much less forgiving than steel and wood. JMHO, ChipS

gew8805. ( THIS IS A PAST POST HERE WHI.E I WAS LOOKKNG WHAT TO USE)

08-01-2013, 03:41 PM

I'm sorry Jim, I have to disagree. Pecards is one of the worst things you can put on leather, it contains petroleum distillates which will damage leather. Peter's recommendation of lanolin is good and personally I will recommend nothing but pure neatsfoot oil, which has been used for hundreds of years and still is, both in tanning and preserving leather. WarPig, be careful of neatsfoot oil compound which is commonly available, it, like Pecards, contains petroleum products and will damage leather so, like Pecards, you do not want it. Use the pure neatsfoot oil only. Pure is harder to find and more expensive but is worth it in the long run.
Too bad that your grandfather and everyone since allowed the leather in the kidney belt to dry out, it is permanently damaged now and all that can be done is lightly apply natural products - lanolin or neatsfoot oil - in small doses until you are satisfied with the flexibility - not softness - of the leather. Do this after cleaning with a good quality saddle soap. Applying anything to a dirty item will only do more damage. When the belt is almost dry from the cleaning, apply the oil to the flesh side (that's the rough side) and you will have done all you can. After the treatment, do what should have been done for the last 80 years; keep it clean and at a comfortable temperature and in a consistent humidity of 60 - 70% and do not allow it to sit in direct sunlight for extended periods. A well ventilated room is essential. If you box it up for storage, be sure to avoid acidic paper and store in the above temperature/humidity conditions.

Remember to everything in stages, don't drown the leather when you apply the oil, it will clog the dried out pores and cells causing them to swell in their damaged state and further damage the item.

Remember, keep Pecards, mink oil and other goops like snow seal for your work boots and other user grade items, they all do fine for those things but should not be used on items you want to preserve and pass on to others who come after you.

Thanks goodness we seem to finally be getting away from the claims that used to be made for Pecards, that "it is used by the Smithsonian Institution" and other museums - it most certainly is not. If you want to know what real museums and antique curators/collectors actually do with leather to be preserved see:

National Park Service - Museum Management Program

No offense taken the better knowledge i get it benefits me, but i was going tbrough some post here about restoring leather if you go to search box and put in it restoring leather you will see this and btw i agree with the baseball oil but read this and theres alot more

---------- Post added at 05:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:07 PM ----------

I got this information from a thread about restoring dried up leather like im trying to do something about my dried up leather bayonet,

Frank

I applied several light coats of anhydrous lanolin Amazon.com: Lanolin, Anhydrous Lanolin Pharmaceutical Grade: Health Personal Care to the dried and loose leather disks on a No 3 knife with very good results.
Swelled the grips enough to tighten them up. I think I paid $8 US for a one pound jar at the local Apothecary.

I use Obenauf's Leather Care which has worked extremely well for me, like on this holster which was dry and starting to crack where the flap 'hinges'. Does not permanently darken or leave a greasy feel. Does not soften either so the object retains its shape. I would put it on a leather bayonet handle with no hesitation.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...41ed24f8-1.jpg

I use lanolin - it works for sheep!

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

I use lanolin - it works for sheep!

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What do sheep use it for?;)

You would use it on like this Leather


of course i guess i just missed out

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

What do sheep use it for?

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Shining their rubber boots...

Waterproof the raincoat the sheep are wearing :D

The stuff actually works miracles on dry cracked hands as an added benifit.

Theres really great advice here

Attachment 57447

Now it's worse...

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

The stuff actually works miracles on dry cracked hands as an added benifit.

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I wonder if udder balm would work on leather. I don't have any handy now to check the contents but it too does wonders for dry, cracked hands. Just a thought, any ranchers out there want to weigh in?

Shania Twain uses it on her skin...

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Originally Posted by ChipS

udder balm

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Originally Posted by imntxs564

You would use it on like this Leather


of course i guess i just missed out

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Yep. I would hit that with the liquid Obenauf's until it wouldn't take any more. After some time, maybe months, I would probably work on restoring the original appearance of the damaged leather.

You know, I think im going to chunk it or give it away, i bet 2 or 300 dollars i can find a nicer one, im sure somebody would take it. I've been looking around the web and there are some nice ones for about that price. I might as well. I dont really need one but since it has that T3 Bayonet Lug, i would like to get one just to have. Thanks

Frank

Udder Balm do cows have that ?

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Originally Posted by imntxs564

I think im going to chunk it or give it away

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Yes, you can find some about perfect. Don't give it away though. Sell it for what it will get. Look here for examples of nice...Hayes Otoupalik https://www.joesalter.com/listings.p...II%20Militaria http://www.stewartsmilitaryantiques.com/ Simpson Ltd That should keep you looking for a bit...

It seems I have caused this tread to devolve on a tangent.

They are out there.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsf237-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

I have caused this tread to devolve

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Somewhat...but I wouldn't worry. It happens...

Nice blades Jim.

They are out there in greatly diminished quantites thanks to you.

Very nice bayopinwheel! Seems the perfect way to display them.
:super:

Very Nice Bayonets, one of those will do just fine...ive been in contact for a couple of nice ones to choose from. As the other stuff here JKP, Thanks

Frank

I have always used Dubbin on my boots and leather sheaths but the 07 scabbards I have been told not to use anything as I was applying Balistol.
As far as this thread goes, in a world that is full of calamity and often sadness some interjection of humor can sometimes have a positive affect on a person who is perhaps having a blue day. :D
Nice blades I am slowly building up my 07 but it gets costly especially hookies at present up to $2,500.oo for Lithgows.........

We just had a gunshow here and I could have had you a hook quillon for less...reasonable actually. Also a nice 1903 pattern with an 1888 repurposed blade...also reasonable...wish I'd known.

When I was a kid it was called Bag Balm. Probably would do fine on leather.

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

When I was a kid it was called Bag Balm. Probably would do fine on leather.

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Yes, I remember it also being called bag balm (maybe a slang term?), long ago when I was a kid. I think I'm going to get a can or at least check out the ingredients. You would think it would be organic and non-toxic, probably not petroleum based as calves will ingest it. Something in the back of my mind recalls glycerin but it's so long ago. I was not a farm boy but I grew up with a bunch of farm boys in southern Indiana so I know a little about the industry. If I try it on old leather I will post the results. ChipS

Bag was the term we used for udder...when I was a kid. Southern Ontario farmer...with cattle...

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Originally Posted by DaveHH

When I was a kid it was called Bag Balm.

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I remember now as well we used to put that on the dry and cracked teats of the milking cows, do not miss one aspect of that job placing on the cow the cups in a herring bone system and that is dodging all the afterburner and flash floods that are emitted from the cows posterior section........

Or having them set their foot on your rubber booted toe...while hand milking.

Sounds like we have a few old 'farm boys' in the crowd!!!! I do remember the term 'green arm' but I don't think we want to discuss it here. LOL

I did search bag (udder) balm and it is an old (1899) compound that appears to contain lanolin and some other chemical component(s) that I am not familiar with, including some antibiotic properties. I may check Tractor Supply or Rural King and see if I can get a small container and give it a try on some expendable leather. I just retired and it can't hurt because all I have now is time. ChipS

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Originally Posted by ChipS

'green arm'

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Nope...I just had a flash of gross. I haven't talked about some of this since I was 17...maybe we should go over to off topics and then get down and dirty...

Let's see now...leather preservatives...rejuvenation...

How does Dubbin and Balistol fare with leather they say the latter is ok but I am very wary of putting it on 07 scabbards and just use Dubbin sparingly 3 - 4 times a year on the scabbards TIA

Ballistol is okay on leather but I would not use it on delicate/valuable/old leather. Obenauf's does the trick.

I used to think that all of the things people have said for years about 'Pecards' was brainwashed junk they had read, but I used it for the first time a couple of years ago and it worked wonderful for me. It wasn't 'greasy' days later, and the leather felt like dry new leather. I used 'neatsfoot' oil all of my life as my dad did, but Pecards was amazing in my results.. It just may have been have been in my situations, but it really worked great for me.... It didn't seem to work any better than other treatments at first, but days/weeks later the leather was in good condition and not 'greasy' feeling as neatsfoot oil, etc did... I still have a couple of very old slings I treated with lanolin/neatsfoot oil years back, and they still feel a little 'greasy' to me. Who knows on this subject(?) I have really had some different reasults. I think we all get different results depending on the leather and it's age/production.

Jim, (browningautorifle), I'll get you for THAT... If you start telling us about having to put your arm up the rear-end of cows, and the other stuff I'll block you! :lol:

My dad made me do it at our neighbor's milk farm when I was a kid and I still have a hard time keeping it out of my memory..... They didn't even use those long rubber gloves then.. (I'll get you for that one buddy)

Thanks Inland I will google Pecards also and see if it is available in Aus.

Harlan please I know I said stuff but I still remember the end result of a cow calving and a few days after milking them in a herringbone dairy, getting swished in the face by it when you are putting cups on, then there were the Pesseries O'er no more please I am having flash backs right now!!!!

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Originally Posted by Harlan

your arm up the rear-end of cows

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Hey, I didn't start that...but if we go over to off topic...and there are MANY stories.

Perhaps I should try to order some Pecards...I have a 1918 sling on my LL M1 that could use a treatment and it's still a bit greasy as stated. Sure better than it was when I got it though. Then it was dry with vertigis...I was just glad to get one.

Being a city boy my whole life the only thing I know about cows is I like 'em Medium rare.

I used Pecards on BAR's advice awhile back, it worked very well on a 65yr old dried out leather kidney belt.

There is a huge leather care article from the NPS. I can not find it but read it recently on another forum. I have read dozens of leather care threads on several forums.

The bottom line of what I have read is that nothing added to leather will prolong collectable leather's life. Almost anything will decrease its life. Some will do much harm, all will do at least a little. The only exception is where one must, or is, gonna use the leather and it is stiff. Some preps will help it function but they will decease its life span. The only thing to do with collectable leather is to keep it clean and store it at room temp. and moderate humidity. Protect it from UV and Fungus.

I can no longer find the NPS article that you refer to Mike, but here is their Conserve - O - Gram:

National Park Service - Museum Management Program

It is under - 9. Leather and Skin Objects - and has basic information. If I can relocate the major, more detailed document I will post a link here.

Please avoid anything with petroleum content, too many people use one product - praised in this thread several times - and it will do damage, but makes things look pretty for a while. Apparently that is all most want. My advice? Read the label, use only natural products lightly and, in most cases, only once every few years, even if the item being "preserved" is in regular use. One of the worst things you can do is over apply "preservatives".

Found the document. They have changed the presentation access so that you will go through the manual to in order to identify terminology, proper steps, etc. A good idea, really. This link should (I hope) take you directly to Appendix S: Curatorial Care of Objects made from Leather and Skin Products :

http://www.nps.gov/museum/publicatio...pendix%20S.pdf

Of particular interest is Section F: What are the drawbacks of leather dressings?

Also, under Section D: How do I store objects properly?

Hope this helps, good solid information is hard to find and this is the best written by people that know what they are doing.

This stuff rocks! I've conditioned several WWI holsters with it, getting excellent results. Does not leave a greasy residue. Amazon.com: Blackrock Leather Rich Cleaner Condition Preserver 4 Oz: Shoes

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Originally Posted by lkgmadmax

This stuff rocks! I've conditioned several WWI holsters with, getting excellent results.

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Let us know how they look in 200 years

Harlan,

This 1918 dated holster has had at least two treatments of Pecards for the past 15 years, and is better now than when I received it. Apply in thin even coats, and it soaks in with no oily feel.

If you are going to use Ballistol on leather, use Baby Oil instead as both are mineral oil based, but the Baby Oil is pure without the bore cleaners.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../2lvobhu-1.jpg

Thanks Johnny,

I'm usually the last to follow current tends and such but I wanted to give credit where where credit is due. Pecards worked better for me than anything I've used before with no 'greasy' feeling.

~ Harlan