Eddystone P14

I've been a long term collector and frequent reader of the forum. However, since I collect pretty much all types of military bolt action rifles I'm not an expert at any of them. So therefore I've never felt that I had any information valuable enough to contribute.

I found this rifle at Cabela's of all places with a price of $149.99 marked on it. They felt that someone had painted it and shellacked the wood.

It appeared to me to be an arsenal storage paint and wood shellac. For the price above I decided to take a chance. When I stripped of the paint I found mostly intact blue. When I removed the action from the stock I found an almost entirely matching Eddystone rifle. The barrel, bolt, and receiver are all serial numbered to each other. The barrel rifling is in excellent shape.

The forward hand guard is a Remington and the butt plate was a very rusty ill fitting Remington marked piece. I ordered a replacement butt plate from Springfield Sporter in Pennsylvania. As it is a Eddystone part it fits the stock much better. Also it appears to be in such good shape that it might be new old stock.

What can anyone tell me about the history of this rifle? I've already read all the online sources I can find. But I don't see any obvious markings to indicate that this is a Wheeldon(spelling?) rebuild. At this point I suspect that rifle was sent away from England after WW1 and then placed into long term storage. Therefore it was never rebuilt for usage in WW2. Please correct me if this is wrong.

Would a set of original volly sights be correct for this rifle?

I have included images taken both before and after my attempt at restoration.

Attachment 57721Attachment 57722Attachment 57723Attachment 57724Attachment 57725Attachment 57726

Dave

That's a nice looking rifle - you must be very happy with it!

I'm not a P14 specialist but my understanding is the easiest way to work out if it went through the Wheedon Repair Standard process is to see if the volley sights are there. If they aren't, then it went through the WRS process.

Ian Skennerton's SAIS guide (no. 10) to the rifle indicates pretty much all of the P14s went through WRS at the start of WWII, as I understand it.

The guide also notes there might be a star with a letter above it stamped on the rifle somewhere (it doesn't say where) indicating where it was upgraded to the Mk I*/WRS configuration.

Thanks for your response I'm not an expert on this rifle either. I'm very happy with it. I still have some 303 from South Africa that I'm going to run through it this week or next.


The bolt body and the top of the receiver both have the star or asterisk stamp on it. Which if I understand correctly indicate the rifle to be a MK2 rifle but not necessarily a Weedon Repaired rifle.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Dwr461

But I don't see any obvious markings to indicate that this is a Wheeldon(spelling?) rebuild. At this point I suspect that rifle was sent away from England after WW1 and then placed into long term storage. Therefore it was never rebuilt for usage in WW2. Please correct me if this is wrong.

Would a set of original volly sights be correct for this rifle?

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Weedon Repair Standard (WRS) involved removal of dial from front volley sight, removal of rear volley sight arm (so only circular portion remained), filling of brass ID disk in stock and quite possibly a few other things, but they are to most obvious signs to look for. Your rifle looks like a WRS rifle to me. If you look under on the underside of the stock just behind the pistol grip (is there a correct term for that on a rifle stock?) you should find a stamping that looks like the star of david and a letter eg E which would denote RSAF Enfield did the WRS work.

As for volley sights, you can probably pick them up cheaper in the US than I recently did, but I recently paid $200 for front and rear volley sights and an assortment of other small parts (all Eddysone marked). I've seen some cheaper in the US but it very hard to get sellers to agree to ship out of the US so have to pay the premium and source parts elsewere like the UK. I think Numrich sell rear rolley sights (e) marked on that auction site and on their own site. FYI Front volley sight dials pointers are longer than the SMLE and MLE or MLM volley sights, but all other parts are interchangeable such as washers, screws etc.

Good looking rifle. Nice to see it with its correct Fatboy stock.

Thanks for your response, it does have all the modifications that you mention and as such it is most likely a WRS rifle. But I'm not seeing the star shaped cartouche in the stock between the trigger guard and grip. In that area I see an "H" and a "6" I can post an image of that area If it would be helpful. Maybe the "H" cartouche is another location that performed the WRS for the UK.

Dave

My understanding is there's no such thing as a P1914 Mk 2 - it's Mk I*, indicating a minor change to the bolt and the removal of the volley sights (much like with the SMLE Mk III*).

It's almost certainly undergone WRS. Pretty much all of them did; I don't think I've ever seen a P14 with the volley sights still on it.

Having a look through Ian Skennerton's books, H over a 6 might be an inspection mark - he doesn't mention an "H" cartouche in reference to anyone doing WRS upgrades.

And while there are both an H and a 6 they do not appear to have been on the same stamp or even have the same font. The appear to be two separate and distinct stamps. The disk for the volley sight is still intact and not ground down as have been told was common for WRS reworked rifles.

Dave

"P1914 Mk 2", yes there was, sort of. When the P14s were refurbed in early WW2. Where the forewood stock were found to be damaged beyond repair a company in Glasgow made new stocks without the volley sights and the stock was stamped mkII in some cases at least.

If you look up "wood goes to war" elsewhere here you will see at one stage a P14 having a new stock fitted/inspected.

No I od not believe you are correct here. "it's Mk I*, indicating a minor change to the bolt and the removal of the volley sights" Mk1*'s originally had volley sights, my one dated July 1917 certianly does. The Weedon refurb removed the volley sights. The mk1* upgrade was either a new bolted added to a mk1 with a new barrel or a straight off original.

"Would a set of original volly sights be correct for this rifle?" Yes and no. However so is the Weedon upgrade correct. It is an important part of this rifles history IMHO, it also might be a bit rarer in this configuration.

Can you show me a pic of the area where the front volley sight has been removed? I'd like to see what the inlayed wood repair looks like to see if its typical.

Thanks. So the star type stamp is just like the one on my SMLE to indicate changes to a rifle but not another Mk. Got it.

But just to make sure I understand the Mk 1* could still have volley sights unless it went through the WRS process? Than the stud on the disk would be ground off as part of that rebuild?

Here are some images of the range disk. I hope they enough resolution for you. Thanks for showing me the images of you winchester P14 it's a beautiful example.

Dave

All MkI and MkI* would have been issued with front and rear volley sights. WRS would have removed front dial and cut rear volley sight arm off. Of the 10 or so P14's that I have owned in varying states of repair about 2 have had the front volley sight disk ground flush whilst the remainder did not. I'm not so sure the grinding of front volley dial plates was carried out all the time, rather just the removal of the pointer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiwi

All MkI and MkI* would have been issued with front and rear volley sights. WRS would have removed front dial and cut rear volley sight arm off. Of the 10 or so P14's that I have owned in varying states of repair about 2 have had the front volley sight disk ground flush whilst the remainder did not. I'm not so sure the grinding of front volley dial plates was carried out all the time, rather just the removal of the pointer.

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Got it. The grinding off of the attachment point on the volley disk means nothing. I've collected long enough to know the only consistency is inconsistency. :)

So does anyone have any idea why there's no W cartouche on the stock?

Dave