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Learned a bit of info today the Lewis Gun was modified to 30/06 cal and utilized by the Americans as the M17 in WWI.
The Japanese also chambered it for their 7.7 round and used it as well not to be confused with the woodpecker.
Interesting I thought and who would have guessed that not a scant 13 years later they were our enemies after Dec 7 1941 that day that will live in infamy....
The Lewis Gun was only chambered in .303, .30-06, & 7.92x57, but the Japanese called it the Type 92 and used their 7.7mm rimmed cartridge that was interchangeable with the .303 British round.
For those wanting to read an interesting MKL article about the Lewis Gun ... ;)
Lewis Gun Love Affair (By Graeme Barber)
Regards,
Doug
The Italian Air Force also used the 7,7mm Lewis m/g as did the Polish Air Force in 7.92x57.
There is a 6.5mm chambering of the Lewis gun too. I have a post WW1 experimental 303 Lewis cartridge which is kind of a magnum cartridge made in the UK but never developed outside of testing.
My photo shows two early 303 cartridges plus a Japanese 7,7 mm cartridgeAttachment 58167Attachment 58168
There were a few chambered in 8mm Lebel & the 6.5x55 but not many !...................
I always thought it was interesting the US had two M1917 machine-guns in service, along with two M1917 revolvers and an M1917 rifle. I can't imagine the logistical headaches that must have caused for quartermasters...
The Lewis Gun was also chambered in 7.62mm x54R for the Russians.
--fjruple
.303 Br, .30cal,(USA); 7,92;(Poland );7,62x54R(Russian Contract, also Estonia); 6,5x53R and ? 7,9x57R ?(Netherlands); 7,7x56R ( Italy, France, & Japan). Belgium 7,65x53.
BSA manufactured the British, Russian, Belgian, French & Italian Guns; the Dutch may have had theirs made especially by BSA after WW I; the Japanese copied the design after buying some (and ammo) in the 1920s. Poland converted the .303 guns ( and maybe the Russian 7,62 Guns) to 7,9mm.
The US (Savage) made both .303 guns and after 1917, .30 cal guns.
So far there is no confirmation that the Italians ever made the Lewis for themselves, but some Lewis Guns were converted in Belgium from .303 to 7,9mm for "Arms merchant" sales...probably for China.
As to the 6,5 Swede and the 8mm Lebel Lewis Guns, these seem to be in the realms of "Test Prototypes" immediately after WW I...Sweden adopted the FN-built BAR, whilst France abandoned the 8mm Lebel cartridge for FMs and used a new design (the 7,5mm cartridge) and the MAC M24/29 gun.
Doc AV
Specifications for the
Lewis Machine Gun
Light Machine Gun
Country of Origin: United States
Manufacturer: Birmingham Small Arms Company Ltd - UK
Initial Year of Service: 1914
Overall Length: 1280 mm (50.39 in)
Barrel Length: 670.00 mm (26.38 in)
Weight (Empty): 28.66 lb (13.00 kg)
Caliber: .303 British; .30-06 Springfield; 7.92x57mm Mauser
Action: Gas-Operated
Feed: 47- or 97-round detachable pan
Muzzle Velocity: 2,440 ft/sec (744 m/sec)
Rate-of-Fire: 550 rounds per minute
Range: 2,624 ft (800 m; 875 yds)
Sights: Iron Blade and Tangent Leaf
Lewis Machine Gun - Light Machine Gun - History, Specs and Pictures - Military, Security and Civilian Guns and Equipment
Yes they were chambered in other cartridges but they are very rare !.........
So...you must have found that on Wiki, and we're ALL just wrong. Beyond your long list of three calibers, it was initially made in at least 7 other calibers. All for marketing. That was in the beginning...
Someone I.D. the cartridge in my quiz in the lower section so I can add another cartridge to the list of known Lewis m/g cartridges. It'sAttachment 58249 the 303 Lewis which used the standard 303 Mark 7 total length but a different profile. The idea was to rechamber the 303 cal Lewis machine guns to this cartridge to improve performance
Do you have a reference for that? I've been studying British/Empire small arms for well over a decade and I've never heard that one before.
I have a reference from George A. Hoyem's "The History and Development of Small Arms Ammunition" page 166. Now, I do not know which volume the 303 Lewis is listed in as there are four volumes ?
All of the examples of the 303 Lewis machine gun cartridge that I have seen have the Royal Laboratories Woolwich headstamp (1918) but there could be others.
JonnyC said he was going to look for data on the bullet weight and velocity and post the data
From what I've been able to find, they only made a run of 5000 rds? Is that right?
Yes the Japanese used their 7.7x58SR in the Lewis Gun & it worked !..............Quote:
Originally Posted by RCS
Although not directly related, check out the new documentary posted in The Screening Room... :thup:
The Machine Gun and Skye's Band of Brothers (2014) - Full Length Documentary (1 hour)
Regards,
Doug
Just to go out this holiday season and pick some nits :
Japan had 3 7.7 rounds used before and in WW2 . The 7.7x56 rimmed , the 7.7x58 semi-rimmed , and the 7.7x58 rimless. They were not interchangeable at all . The rimmed was a direct copy of the British .303 used at the time and used in the Lewis and Vickers copies they made . The semi-rimmed was a higher pressure round used in a few machine guns. The rimless is the common rifle ( and some machine guns ) round we are familiar with.
Chris
Interesting. Like I said, I've never heard of it before and none of my reference texts, including some "primary sources" like the 1929 Textbook of Small Arms or the 1915 Treatise on Ammunition make reference to an experimental round for the Lewis Gun. I know the British were working on the .280 Enfield round when WWI inconveniently got in the way (the Pattern 1914 was originally designed for the round, as I understand it) so I'm not saying it didn't happen or anything, I'm just surprised I've never encountered a reference to it before.
Col Enfield, There were at of interesting cartridges before WW1 like the 280 Ross and 276 Enfield. I found a short list of pre and post WW1 cartridges around 303 cal with ref to both Fleming and Hoyem. Here is a short list:
303 Swift, 303 Adder, 303 Mauser (7,65mm), 303 Fraser, 303 Marksman, 303 Magnum, 303 Jeffery. 375/303 WR and 303 Enfield rimless (used to around 1930)
I believe there was also a .303 Savage round too that had nothing to do with - and was in no way interchangeable with - the .303 British round, too. Used in one of the Savage lever action rifles (the Model 99, I think) and pretty much nothing else, as I understand it. Pretty sure it was produced from the mid-1890s until the 1930s or thereabouts.
Correct on both counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield
The 303 Savage was very popular among hunters and guides for moose hunting in Canada and the US for many years. This was because of the factory loading of the 190 gr bullet. I do not recall any other rifle or carbine chambered for this cartridge except the Model 99. I have seen what happens when you fire a 303 Savage in the Lee Enfield - the case is damaged in a bad way.
The Lewis machine gun could not be synchronized for aircraft use in the Great War and had to be mounted outside of the prop arc. Special pusher type fighters such as the De Havilland 2 and F.E. 8 had the Lewis mounted in front while the Vickers gun bus had a Vickers in front plus a Lewis on a special ring mount