Inglis High Power Serial Number - I'm stumped

Hi all,
I have a neat Inglis Hi Power made in Toronto, Ontario with all matching (slide/bbl/frame) serial numbers that are 87x.......I have never seen one with a 3 digit serial number? I have looked high and low and cannot find anything about it.

On the left side of the gun it says Browning - F.N. 9mm H.P INGLIS CANADA
On the right side of the gun is just the serial number stamped almost in line with each other on the bbl, the slide, and the frame

Here are some pics

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9e56c108-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f260345b-1.jpg

Can you take some close-up pictures of the proofmarks on the frame and slide and tell me whether the serial number has 'CH', 'T' or no letter in it?

I had a 3 digit gun, but it had a prefix. Mine was a 0T8XX, don't remember the whole number. Yes, we need a close up, preferably not a phone pic...

Might be a "lunch box" pistol. Assembled by a factory worker at home, (or later out of nos parts), with a non-standard serial number applied for registration purposes. They are out there and you aren't that far from where they were produced during the war.

All original phosphate Inglis's would have had the serial number applied in the white.

It's possible someone modified the serial number and re-finished the pistol, but without close up pictures it's not possible to say for sure. We do know it was refinished at some point, by either the factory (some were upgraded to Mk 1* and refinished) military arsenal, or outside of the military.

Regards,
-Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

Can you take some close-up pictures of the proofmarks on the frame and slide and tell me whether the serial number has 'CH', 'T' or no letter in it?

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Paul,
There are no markings on it what so ever.........no letter in the serial number just the 3 numbers. The only stamp I saw on it was on the bottom of the mag - looked like a T (maybe for Toronto)??

Thanks in advance guys!!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...56c4920d-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fd8f5e88-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7879373a-1.jpg

That "T" is a JI for John Inglis. Looks like it might have been stolen from the factory and numbered later. I know handguns could be registered without problem for years, my great Uncle took his vet bringback in around 1965 and they papered it without question. This may have done the same. Nice gun.

A few observations:
1. there should be, but aren't, Dominion of Canada acceptance marks (a broad arrow inside a "C") on the right side (S/N side) of the frame;
2. there should be, but isn't, a cross pennant marking of the barrel visible through the ejection port;
3. the factory applied serial numbers were done using a pantograph which left very neat, evenly space, all on one plane, consistent-depth markings while your serial number is uneven, off-line and not consistent;
4. there is no marking above the "BROWNING - FN 9MM HP" where the "MkI*", etc. stamping should be;
5. and - significantly (or not) the cam lug is prick-punched to keep it in place in the frame.

All the above, the last point in particular, makes me wonder who, when, and why that was done. One possible answer is also the most likely explanation. That is, as has been suggested earlier, the pistol was made from parts that "grew legs" or were poached from the factory before the S/N was applied and became accountable.

I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I would take 10 to 1 odds on it being a "Lunch-box Special".

I generally don't believe in "Lunch Box" guns, but after seeing this one I may have to modify my stance. Sure fits the bill.

Long Branch had a rifle team, I don't know if they had a pistol team. I'd agree on the "lunch box" special or, if they had a pistol team, a piece selected and tuned for those shooters. My brother bought a lovely 7.62 No.4 with a one-of-a-kind target rear sight. There are no military or DCRA stamps on the rifle, but from the condition and little clues on the rifle as well as some research, we've concluded that it was probably made for the rifle team. If only the pistol could talk!

"If only the pistol could talk." Indeed, and what a tale it would tell.

There are logical, deductive reasons to expect that it was not selected and tuned for pistol team use. Firstly, there is the simple matter of wartime demand for pistols which would seemingly preclude holding back pistols for competitive target shooting. Remember too, that at private citizens across "the Empire" had not long before (circa 1940) handed over personal weapons for war service use. Secondly, it is unlikely in the least (more likely unimaginable) to expect that a specially selected pistol, taken from the assembly line would have what appears to be a hand stamped serial number when it would have been easier, less labour-intensive and time consuming to pantograph a serial number on it in the same way it would have been otherwise.

Sadly, we can only guess what the real story is here, and that is a story all of us would really like to hear.

'.....If only the pistol could talk.....' In circumstances like an un-numbered pistol, sometimes it's better if if it didn't talk!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

A few observations:
1. there should be, but aren't, Dominion of Canada acceptance marks (a broad arrow inside a "C") on the right side (S/N side) of the frame;The C^ is there Top left of frame close to magwell swell, but the DCP isn't
2. there should be, but isn't, a cross pennant marking of the barrel visible through the ejection port;
3. the factory applied serial numbers were done using a pantograph which left very neat, evenly space, all on one plane, consistent-depth markings while your serial number is uneven, off-line and not consistent;
4. there is no marking above the "BROWNING - FN 9MM HP" where the "MkI*", etc. stamping should be;This is an EARLY slide (pantograph engraved left side markings and long dust cover edge) and so wouldn't have the MkI or MkI* originally applied
5. and - significantly (or not) the cam lug is prick-punched to keep it in place in the frame. I noticed this right away as the Inglis BHP was known to have cam lock bars come loose

All the above, the last point in particular, makes me wonder who, when, and why that was done. One possible answer is also the most likely explanation. That is, as has been suggested earlier, the pistol was made from parts that "grew legs" or were poached from the factory before the S/N was applied and became accountable.

I'm not a betting man, but if I was, I would take 10 to 1 odds on it being a "Lunch-box Special".

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It is definitely a "lunch box" which escaped without an original serial number.

I've owned several, from "in the white", mixed finish parts, and completely finished except for serial #.

The one I have retained is "in the white" composed of parts which are all MkI rather than MkI*. My slide and frame were both grabbed before final finishing operations.

Here another lunch box special, №1 Mk1 as I understand. Very clean example, escaped from serializing and cutting the slot for stock.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../sfIalPb-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../lYKJplQ-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../KIDyVBL-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Vzmn43V-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../8rHiRsK-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../FzWVseS-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../a9kHvUY-1.jpg

That is an interesting pistol Horilka.
Do you know any of its history? I am specifically curious about how and why it was refinished. Was it originally in the white, or were some parts mismatched and then refinished? I have not seen that combination of some polished blued parts (i.e.: grip screws, rear sight, hammer, magazine, etc) and some sandblasted (i.e.: slide & frame) before. I am also curious if the slide was filed to remove serial numbers, perhaps to match a lunch box -unnumbered - frame, since the right side serrations appear to have flat tops rather than sharp edges (or is that just an optical illusion cause by by monitor?).
Cheers
TEG

ps: Here is a picture of my 5T, the serrations appear much sharper and the original tooling marks look rather crude at this magnification:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7a3e8bc1-1.jpg

It looks like mine was definitely refinished. It's hard to tell why - maybe stolen parts were in white or maybe somebody decided "to improve" the old finish. I don't see any sign of serial number removal in any of three areas, but serials on Inglis HPs are so shallow and easy to remove if you have some skills and equipment. But again, it's easy to cover serial removal on slide and frame, but the barrel surface looks like it never had any serial.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Horilka

barrel surface looks like it never had any serial

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We had barrels come in to service as replacement that had no serial of course...

I would disagree that it's easy to hide or cover a serial number on the frame/slide because contrary to what you say, Inglis (and Sterlings) were cut fairly deep. So deep in fact that to file and linish one out of the frame or slide would be easily detected with a micrometer and/or a steel rule/straightedge.

Because the engraving was fairly deep, in UK Military service a miscellaneous instruction was issued to the effect that we were not permitted to re-engrave a serial number over a linished out number on a barrel (being re-used in another pistol for example.....). It could be left blank or numbered with an electric pencil, otherwise known as a 'scratchy pen'. Later this was amended so that while re-engraving was not permitted, workshops with the correct facilities could re-number with what was called a 'drag diamond' which marks but doesn't cut. (Well, I suppose it does, but it is really a deep 'scratch')

Feel free to correct me Tankie and BAR as I recall stamping was absolutely taboo of course!)

The diamond etch seems about right, as in engraving with a pantograph... The weapons shop in Wainwright had one I remember. We were so far removed and had so many lodgers that we needed almost full facility.