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A group photo of my US launchers on rifles. The top one is a super rare mint 1917 launcher. I just took it out of the wrap to show it on the rifle. Also shown is a WWII period four prong projector, Ray
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AWESOME collection!
I see that you do as I do...
I'll get on one subject, research it like crazy, buy books, visit forums and ask questions then start trying to collect everything I can about the subject of my current interest.
~ Harlan
Very nice...
Harlan, yes the research and Learning. That's the fun of the collecting.
Just a note, almost all of the 1917 Enfield launchers made were either shipped to other nations along with the Enfield rifles the US provided them under the lend least provisions or post war re-armament and those launchers remaining in the US, were converted to 1903 launchers. So they are extremely rare.
Another launcher I have and my only non US launcher, is a Japanese type 100 grenade launcher. This launcher is unusual in that it uses the gases tapped off live round to fire the grenade unlike most launchers that use a blank type cartridge, Ray
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That one must be as scarce as the M1917 model.
Ray, Do you have any Viven-Bessieres WW1 grenade launchers for any US or French Lebel rifles ?
As stated above, my M2 (M1917) launcher has been modified and re-marked for the M1903 rifle. The M1 (1903A1) launcher was then authorized for use on both M1903 series and M1917 rifles. Unmodified M2 launchers are super scarce. Here is a picture of my favorite rifle grenade, the 60mm mortar round used with a four prong projection adapter.
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I wasn't aware they could fire the mortar rd with the launcher. That's interesting, two types of ordinance to use.
I was curious of just what was involved in converting the 17 launcher to be able to be used in the 03. So I tried to put my 17 launcher on an 03 and it wouldn't go over the muzzle far enough down to enable the gate to fit past the back of sight base. Apparently the alteration just involved deepening/extending the depth of the inside shoulder a bit to allow the muzzle to go in farther for the gate to close.
Is there a chance you can take a readable photo of the mortar page? Ray
I don't have one but I do have a M91 MN made by Westinghouse that has an extra reinforcement bolt installed in the stock to strengthen the stock for firing grenades when using that launcher. RayQuote:
Originally Posted by RCS
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There is a pic. of a GI with a 60MM mortar round on his rifle . I just thought it was a couple of guys screwing around . Wow . The recoil must be something with that much weight . Any chance of scanning and posting the manual underneath ? My shoulder surgeon would love you ( you just KNOW I've gotta try it once ) .
Chris
That was my thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by emmagee1917
The TB states not to be fired from the shoulder, no overhead fire of friendly troops, not to be fired from the carbine, sandbag or clothing roll to be placed under the rifle butt. To be used only in cases of emergency. About 70% of shells fired can be expected to explode. About 100 yard range can be reached with standard rifle grenade cartridges, 150 yards with the use of the auxiliary cartridge M7 (T18). :yikes:
The UK had a P'14 (and therefore, preumably for an M'17 too) launcher for the No36 grenade. Got one of those? I only ever saw a couple and they were at Warminster attached to rifles damaged when the grenades exploded in the cups!
That doesn't sound like a happy ending to the shooter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I just looked up the P14 launcher on Google and it shows your article with those two damaged launchers, Ray
We also had a grenade launcher for the M1 carbine too. I had proposed putting on a display of grenade launching but space was at a bit of a premium. Will you index the article on google Ray. I have tried and keep coming up with suggestions for young Thai brides!
I'll try Peter. It came up and when I closed it and tried to get it back, it disappeared. I will keep trying, Ray
---------- Post added at 02:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 PM ----------
Found it, Lets see if this works..... Milsurps Knowledge Library - Exploding P14 Grenade Discharger Cups (by Peter Laidler))
I seem to recall that the Patt 14 rifle grenade launchers were pretty agricultural in their construction. Anyone else own such a beast?
Not many originals around, someone even makes a reproduction M76 now ! I believe the M76 had a rather short life of serviceAttachment 59214Attachment 59215Attachment 59216
But that's for the M14 right?
Just a few points. I remember a US Army publication on the US Army Special Forces dated from back in the early 1960s with a photo of a "foreign" trainee armed with a M1903 with a grenade launcher attached with a 60mm Mortar round on the launcher. The trainee also had a number of 60mm mortar rounds hanging from his pistol belt which I thought was rather dangerous to say the least. I will see if I can find a copy of the photo. I believe the M76 Grenade launcher was primarily used by the USMC. I dont recall any being issued the US Army unit I served with. The 40mm M79 Grenade launcher (Boop Tube) and later the M209 was the primary grenade launchers during my service.
--fjruple
60 mm mortar bombs won't go off until the inertia arms the fuze. Hanging from a belt would be more dangerous for your feet...
Bill Ricca has a short article that he wrote about the service use of the M76 grenade launcher. He states that as the M14 was replaced in the army units with the M16 and the M79 long before the USMC units, giving the impression that only the USMC used the M76 grenade launcher. Anyone interested should check William J. Ricca Suplus Sales and read the article concerning the M76
Bill has a lot of other good info on several other things, and full articles too.
I believe these boxes were issued one per platoonAttachment 59223Attachment 59224Attachment 59225
Okay, displaying my ignorance here. The Japanese design seems to make the most sense (not having to use a blank). I wonder why that wasn't the standard? My only experience is with a launcher I bought for my No1 Mk3. The kids and I launch tennis balls with it and have a blast. Seeing all of these gives me the itch to start down that line as well......nutsQuote:
Originally Posted by rayg
Here's an old posts, here on on another forum on my experience in making grenade cartridges and launching tennis balls from the LE. Ray
Need help in making grenade launching cartridges?
How to make Grenade Launching cartridges? [Archive] - Military Surplus Collectors Forums
Because sometimes in life the launcher may get damaged or other things happen and the bullet does not align with the hole and instead causes the grenade to go off at the muzzle. May also be a range difference or accuracy difference , that I do not know . The US WW1 VB cups used a bullet round , and they dropped it for the blank type.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhpd201
Chris
That makes sense. Thanks Chris
My opinion is that the possibly of mis-alignment was probably not a major problem with this launcher unless some one has more information on this happing as it was used until the end of the war. I think for the muzzle tube not to align with the muzzle with the launcher it would have had to be very badly damaged or bent to where it probably couldn't be mounted on the rifle. The bayonet muzzle ring aligns the muzzle with the bullet tube and secures the launcher pretty well. Also the bullet tube dia. it self is enough over size to allow for some mis-alignment and I would think the worst case would be the shaving of the bullet a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by emmagee1917
I think the major reason the launchers did away with firing by live rds was the impracticality and the danger of firing a live rd into the air when a blank rd. would serve the same purpose.
Anyway, no expert on these launchers, just my thoughts, Ray
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Never having been in combat my thoughts may be off base. It seems to me that not having to carry two types of cartridges would be a plus. It also seems to me that unloading the rifle and loading a blank take time that could be avoided. The faster you could launch the grenade the better.
I've been issued both and there's no problem. We'd only be issued about 5 balisite cartridges. We didn't generally have the grenade launcher attached anyway. You had to carry the grenades and tails and none of it mattered in the grand scale. You had to carry all of it.