Anyone have any first experience with a No4 Mk1 converted to 7.62×51? How is the accuracy with these rifles?
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Anyone have any first experience with a No4 Mk1 converted to 7.62×51? How is the accuracy with these rifles?
Just this one. It's the only one that really interests me, and it's blisteringly accurate. Even with run of the mill Brit milsurp MG ammo.
Nice, I am sincerly jealous. Sadly, unless Criterion can be talked into a run of L42 barrels (not holding my breath), then something like that will be forever out of my reach. Last one I saw for sale had $8k on the sticker.
Actually, I was curious about the DCRA rifles and/or Sterling conversions. I've been combing the Internet trying to educate myself...ugh!
I have two 7.62 No 4's with military contour barrels. Would say that they shoot as well as a good standard .303, but certainly not as well as a "T" or L42.
I can generally hold my own with the Swede 6.5s and Swiss K-31's out to 200m, after that they will usually out-group me. Frequently lose on count-backs of V-bulls.
I picked up this DCRA back in 1993 from a ex-RCAF competition shooter. I have done nothing to this rifle other than clean it after shooting. It is a phenomenal iron-sight shooter. I run mild handloads through it (match components). If you can find one, grab it!
Hi, "Max".
Are your barrels the "Lithgow Specials" without the bayonet lugs?
One is, the other is an AJ Parker one with bayonet lugs.
Ir depends on what you mean by that. They range from the heavy barrelled typed like L42 & L39 - excellent - though to the L8 - truly dreadful.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc2112
gundoc2112,
You certainly don't need criterion to make new barrels, plenty of old target rifles out there in .308/7.62mm with lots of life left in them, with virtually the same barrel contour as a L42 or even a with an L42 barrel.... (if your lucky)
What Big Duke says is absolutely correct. My friend has a 7.62mm No5 rifle with a barrel machined from a new chrome lined 7,62mm L4 barrel. He ain't in the winning prizes league but just good enjoyable shooting. A lot of the target rifle barrels have so much meat on them that it seems a shame NOT to machine one down to fit your No4. Don't faff around with all that foresight block and bayonet lug palava. Just bore out the muzzle end of your shot-out .303 barrel back to the rear end of the foresight block band lugs, accurately cut off. Machine down your newly threaded and profiled ''7.62mm No4' barrel to suit........., tight fit....., sweat both surfaces, slide on........, accurately align........, allow to cool........, make good and it's there forever. Done it about 5 times now!
The GOOD thing is that under the fore-end you can have a reasonably heavy barrel
Yes, certainly in the UK whilst not common in excellent condition, L39/Enforcer/L42 type barrels are about, as they were on open sale & widely fitted to target rifles from the late '60's onwards. I recently managed to acquire two near new ex L39 barrels as I needed one for an L42 restoration. The other I've put away for a rainy day......
I had a L8-type one, which I got Fultons to rebarrel for me with their 'New Zealand' bedding . The twist rate was about 1:14, IIRC, which meant it didn't shoot at all well with surplus stuff. With 180gn reloads it was very good though the Enfield magazine worked not-very reliably.
The magazines will work but have to be fitted to a correctly machined body. This was another reason some of the early L42's were rejected and you'll see the number appear twice on the list. Mind you, with 7.62mm ball ammo prices now, converting a clapped or shot-out No4 to 7.62 isn't a whole barrel of cheap fun either
Wow, that's a beautiful piece Smle Addict! I saw one for sale online for $1800 (is that about right?), 1st time hearing about that version of the No4, got curious and been researching them.
I'm relatively new to Enfields,finally got to shoot a No4T and fell in love with it. I had been entertaining a clone of both a No4T and a L42a1, think I'm just going to settle for the T clone for the moment. I had contacted a few British companies (Fultons being one) no one seems to have any barrels, mags, or extractors.
Don't know what the price is for surplus now but the last lot I bought was around £40-£45 for 100 that was the German 7.62mm (very good ammo which I use for testing) saying that following up an advert on Gunstar few weeks back I walked away with a LB No4 in 7.62mm (same as .303 barrel contour with bayonet lugs etc) with a L42 mag plus 300 rounds of 7.62 ball ..... for the price It was nearly free ammo or buy the ammo and get a free rifle.... still bargains to be had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Regarding surplus Anybody here know the price of Russian surplus at present 7.62 R + 7.62 X 39 ??
Just save you're $$ and get the real deal. They're not as hard to come by or as pricey as the L42. By the time you put together a clone nowadays you'll probably be spent close to or a bit over half of what you could get a reasonably priced genuine No.4T for, depending on the route you take with the components.Quote:
Originally Posted by gundoc2112
When I bought the DCRA, it was cheap. Granted, that was 1993, and unissued No4s' (in grease wrap) were only $159.00. I think $1800 is too steep. I have seen one on GB auction for $1000, and another on some other site for about $1200. I was lucky in that mine was fitted for the 7.62 magazine, and has the proper extractor. I guess it's like anything else; when you want one, they're scarce. When you could care less, three or four pop up. I was wanting an L39, and the ones I found all hit the $2000 mark. Now that I'm broke from christmas spending and birthdays, I saw one for sale up in LA county. It sold for $1100. I just can't win some days. You will find one; they are out there. This site is a wealth of information and contacts. Also, check the regular auction sites and milsurp dealers. One will turn up. Best of luck!
@BigDuke, I never heard of GunStar, I will check that out. Thank you.
@Vintage Hunter, I've got it figured to between $700-$900 for the T clone, no earthly idea what a 7.62 would run. Thus farfar. I am definitely going to get a complete and legit T (preferably a '44 or ,45 w/ a MK 3) one of these days, hopefully sooner than later, kinda just wanted the clone to shoot the hell out of without feeling guilty about beating up a collectors piece. I have a nice collection of 1911s, but it's my mix match 1945 Colt with Cylinder & Slide guts that gets shot the most and drug through the mud.Same deal.
@Smle Addict, You are right when I'm broke I will see about a hundred different pieces I'd love to own but the minute I have some cash in my gun fund jar I won't come across anything, or if I do, it will be carrying an absurd price tag on it.
If you're planning to use a Fultons or some other clamp on mount and weaver K2.5 or K3 scope and call it a No.4T clone you may be able to do it at that price but if you're a stickler for detail and want a dead ringer I don't think so. I built one in 2008 using a Numrich repro scope($600) + another $80 or so to have it fixed so as to actually be useable, Numrich bracket($145), Sarco pads($80) drills, taps and screws from Sarco ($55), original cheek piece from Apex($85) and a good accurate rifle i had $200 in. That came to $1245 and it doesn't include all shipping costs plus I did all the drilling, tapping and collimating myself. Less than 2 years later I brought a real No.4T w/mk.II scope and bracket for $2500 and a year after that came my second genuine T w/bracket but no scope for $800. I had a Mk.1 scope laying around to go on it and that brought the total cost up $1800 for the second T.
Deals are out there if you bide your time and shop around.
Plus to value of the genuine T will only go up where as you may never be able to get your money back out of a clone.
I certainly don't feel guilty about using my T's or L42 but I take extra good care of them while doing it. This is what mine get used for:
@Vintage Hunter, I have a Century Arms knock off that I picked up for $200. I figure if the pads don'T turn out to be garbage once the attempt at collimating gets underway (lol) then I will save some cost there. If they are junk, I would go with a set from Fultons ($200) and a bracket from Roger Payne whenever he gets some fabbed up ($350ish). Glass would be a Weaver K3. Still on the fence about replacing the barrel with a Criterion, once those hit the market ($350ish). As to intended use, I would like to try my hand at the vintage sniper competition (hense my leanings toward the new barrel- the new Gibbs and JRA 1903 repro are taking a lot of the gold from the way I understand it),and deer and black bear hunting in the fall and winter. Up until now I've been toting a M1A. Like I wrote earlier, firing that No4T made me a fan of Enfields real quick.
BTW, nice rifle you have there. I am truly jealous. I wish I had your luck. I have not encountered a scoped No4T for under 3k, and every non scoped T I've ran across has been in the $1200-$1600 range.
Well gundoc, sounds like you got it all sorted out there. Other than what I've read in SGN and a couple other sources I have no hands on experience with the Century Arms clones but from what I hear they did a passably job on the pads as far as getting them on straight and to the correct spacing. I can tell you though they weren't selected for conversion based on accuracy as the originals were so it could be a toss up. As long as the barrel isn't a sewer pipe, the bedding is good and you don't have to white knuckle the trigger to make it go off it will probably shoot about as good as it would with a new barrel. The original No.4T's are accurate but they aren't tack driving target rifles. The L42 was/is quite a step forward in the accuracy department.
As for as the '03 winning lots of matches, well it reminds me of an old saying regarding the '98 Mauser, the Lee Enfield and the '03 Springfield. The Germans built a hunting rifle, the British built a battle rifle and the Americans built a target rifle.
I have an SA M1A too but it's getting a bit long in the tooth and needing a rebuild. The bedding it shot, piston and plug show quite a bit of pitting and the barrel has over 3000 rounds through it so it don't shoot near as good as it used to. I'll most likely send it up to FA for a tune up after deer season. Good luck with the project. Keep us posted on the progress.:cheers: