Never seen P40 on carrier .....
P-40F Warhawk of the US 33rd Fighter Group takes off from the deck of the USS Chenango. North Africa, 1942.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...to1_1280-1.jpg
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Never seen P40 on carrier .....
P-40F Warhawk of the US 33rd Fighter Group takes off from the deck of the USS Chenango. North Africa, 1942.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...to1_1280-1.jpg
Definitely early pics. Looks like it would be pretty hairy too, very tight quarters there. No surprise, the USS Chenango was very a small escort by comparison to an end war aircraft carrier such as the Midway. Here's the comparison http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Chenango_(CVE-28) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Midway_(CV-41)
I was unaware P-40s operated off carriers. I learn somthing new here every visit.
Sure they were just ferried somewhere and just took off, can't land back on a carrier. Doubt the air frame could handle an arrested landing.
Ship to shore one-way flights during the North Africa landings (Operation Torch). Part of the plan was to use airborne forces to take and secure aerodromes, launch fighters from various escort carriers and have them land at aerodromes after they were secure.
Escort carrier USS Croatan (CVE-25) did both Atlantic anti-submarine work and two cruises to Casablanca in Occtober to December of 1943 ferrying aircraft. She later ferried elements of the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) to Vietnam in 1965, including the author of Chickenhawk, the most highly regarded monograph of helicopter warfare in Vietnam.
Bob
:thup::thup:A lightly loaded P-40 would lift off anywhere from 65-75 MPH indicated airspeed. If the carrier is traveling 15 MPH+ into a 20 MPH headwind a P40F model can do it easily. That means the aircraft only has to gain 30 to 40 MPH on the Deck roll. Easily achieved. 10 to 20degree flaps may be necessary. Remember Dolittles heavily loaded B-25 Mitchells did it off the USS Hornet. Oddly enough the only one that had a problem was the last pilot to take off, simply because he forgot to lower his flaps. The P40F Model had the Packard built Merlin engine in it and not the original Allison V 1710. I see no issues with this event in the hands of an experienced pilot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
USS Ranger CV-4 made two trips to North Africa transporting 68, and 72 Army P-40s, which were flown off and landed in Accra each cruise.
In the image subject of this post everyone, including the pilots sitting in the aircraft, are watching what was probably one of the first planes launched, to see how it goes.
Here is another lesser known action. This time by P-47s, "On 7 May 1944 MANILA BAY sailed for overhaul at Pearl Harbor, where she arrived 18 May. After loading 37 Army P-47 fighters, MANILA BAY sailed 5 June for the Marianas. Steaming via Eniwetok, she reached the eastern approaches to Saipan 19 June. During the next four days she remained east of the embattled island as ships and planes of the Fast Carrier Task Force repulsed the Japanese Fleet in the Battle of the Philippine Sea, and inflicted staggering losses on the enemy, thus crippling the Imperial Japanes Navy's air strength permanently. On 23 June, MANILA BAY came under enemy air attack during refueling operations east of Saipan. Two fighter-bombers attacked her from dead ahead, dropping four bombs which exploded wide to port. Intense antiaircraft fire suppressed further attacks, and as a precautionary and rather unusual move which Admiral Spruance later characterized as "commendable initiative," MANILA BAY launched four of the Army P-47s she was ferrying to fly protective CAP until radar screens were clear of contacts. The Army fighters then flew to Saipan, their intended destination. She launched the remaining planes the next day and returned to Eniwetok, arriving 27 June. After embarking 207 wounded troops, MANILA BAY departed 1 July, touched Pearl Harbor the 8th, and reached San Diego 16 July 1944."
My question - is that piece of wire at 7 o'clock under the tail plane of the aircraft just airborne, it may be a FB on the print or the lense !
Looks like an impurity in the camera.
I worked with a guy who shot down an ME109 with a P40 in North Africa... he said it just flew right in front of him out of nowhere, and he squeezed the trigger. It was the only one he ever got.
What is the saying? "somtimes better to be lucky than good"Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
That wire looks like a "bridle" used for launching off aircraft a WWII catapult. (Bridles were used to launch F4's off CV's during VietNam operations.)The white long object on the deck behind the P40 looks like an alignment fixture used to position the aircraft for a "cat" shot as done during WWII. Thoughts? I do not think that the P40 had bridle hooks as built. Maybe they were fabricated for the operation.
FWIW
That was my thought as well but I don't have any particular data on this. WWII was the mother of strange bedfellows. Pragmatism reigned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosine26
Bob
So you guys think they just left a piece of cable lying around when aircraft were taking off then?
So instead of guessing, I thought why not look up the ship to see if she had a catapult and she did. One steam catapult. The track is visible in the picture and confirmed by the link: Escort Carrier Photo Index: USS CHENANGO (ACV-28)
Early on they used a hook to catch the bridle, though I believe that this was discontinued. Deck launch was faster than catapult launch during WWII. On the first Korean War cruise of the USS Essex, deck launch was generally used for the prop planes (F4U's and AD's) while the jets (F9F's and the F2H's) were always catapult launched.FWIW
The object in the image does appear to be a catapult cable. I'm not that knowledgeable about WWII era carrier catapults but I thought they were steam driven, and I see no sign of escaping steam that was usually visible. On the other hand I recall reading that on the early carrier catapults the cable was usually lost because after launch it was free to fall into the ocean which the object in the image, if a cable looks like it's loose.
But I have to question whether it was necessary to use the catapult. As was mentioned the B25s launched from the Hornet were not assisted, and we have information that a P40 could launch properly set up, with carrier at flank speed, heading into the wind, to include flaps which the pilot of that aircraft obviously has deployed. I am troubled by the idea that P40s were not designed or built for the stresses of catapult launch, but maybe I'm demonstrating my ignorance of the aircraft. The scenario could be that at least a few of the first launched aircraft may have been catapult assisted because of insufficient deck space. The carrier in this case being an escort carrier with minimal flight deck.
Early catapults were hydraulic not steam. As I remember it steam cats were post a WWII development, ergo-no steam showing in the picture.
Whatever is going on it isn't business as usual because everybody in the picture is very interested in the outcome, including the pilots of the other planes. I'd put my money on a Cat launch.
No Cat lauch involed nor needed. The 77 P 40F's "Flew" off the carrier deck.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Chenango_(CVE-28)
Correcting my earlier post with an incorrect transcription, CHENANGO had a hydraulic catapult - not steam. Apparently since she was a converted tanker she had a top speed of ~18kts and not nearly as fast as a fleet carrier.
P40 catapulting
The picture shown is definitely a picture of a P40 being catapulted from an escort carrier. Go to the following url:
http://www.history.navy.mil/download/car-9.pdf
On page 52 is the exact picture with the following annotation
ARMY P-40 Warhawk fighter catapults from CASABLANCA (CVE-55) was first of 50 escort COMMENCEMENT BAY class was concerned to
the deck of a Sangamon class to North Africa.
This should settle the discussion
I was to the point that I thought this had to be a "cat" launch, as I reviewed various volumes of "History of United States Navel Operations in World War II" by Morison. The normal air complement for the "jeep"carriers was around 20 aircraft (which of course had folding wings). The USS Chenago is listed as carrying 76 P40F (fixed wing) aircraft to North Africa in November 1942. With that many aircraft on board that couldn't be anything but a catapult assisted launch in the image. I'd like to see an aft view of the carrier to see all those P40s and how they're parked.
In addition a crewman that is probably the catapult launch director, that appears to be holding a flag, is standing to the left in this view, and if in fact the launch director is about in the right place to where the pilot of an aircraft could see him for the usual hand signals to catapult.
As to the previous post I'm not sure the caption to the image is accurate and may be the writer's interpretation of what's going on as the aircraft carrier involved appears to be misidentified. I am convinced that the P40s carried by USS Chenago subject of the original image were catapult launched, and that the cable object in the image was a catapult bridle.
BTW if you've never seen a color image of these aircraft the camouflage was tan and medium brown, and the surround to the national insignia was yellow.
P40 Chenango Launch
I do not know where the error occurred in the quote for I copied it directly from the referenced document. The correct caption is shown below.
“ARMY P-40 Warhawk fighter catapults from the deck of a Sangamon class to North Africa.”
The following quoted is from:
EVOLUTION OF AIRCRAFT CARRIERS ISSUED BY Naval Aviation Office page 52:
“The carrier Chenango was used, in
the North African operation that followed,
as a ferry carrier for Army
P-40's on the outward trip, as a fuel
supply ship while moored at Casablanca,
and as a fleet escort—with a
borrowed air group furnishing air
cover-on the return trip.”
The CHENANGOis one of four CVE’s in the SANGAMON class of CVE’s. They are all converted AO’s (oilers).
I hope this clears up the original caption error.
https://www.milsurps.com/
The "Linkage" attached to the tail wheel is called the "holdback" it's sole purpose is hold the aircraft back has the pilot
runs up full power and releases the brakes prior to the catapult firing. 41-14378, Curtiss P-40F-5-CU Warhawk,
Pilot was Bill Day plane eventually named "Dammit" was condemned inventory Jul 8, 1944
https://www.milsurps.com/
Note this one also has no yellow circle around the Star
(possibly 41-14502 or 41-14508 pictured above)
P-40,33 Fighter Group Piloted by Daniel B. Rathbun, takes off from the USS Chenango in the Mediterranean near Casablana, Morocco,
during the U.S. campaign in North Africa. November 1942.Once again note the American flag painted on the fuselage of the P-40's
https://www.milsurps.com/
USS Chenango, The first picture is of the 33rd FG taking off from the Chenango as it was off of Casablanca on November 10th, 1942. This is most likely a plane from the 60th FS since they were the first off of the carrier. They landed at Port Lyautey. The take offs were halted due to damaged runways and resumed the next day.
---------- Post added at 05:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 PM ----------
https://www.milsurps.com/
The "Linkage" attached to the tail wheel is called the "holdback" it's sole purpose is hold the aircraft back has the pilot
runs up full power and releases the brakes prior to the catapult firing. 41-14378, Curtiss P-40F-5-CU Warhawk,
Pilot was Bill Day plane eventually named "Dammit" was condemned inventory Jul 8, 1944
https://www.milsurps.com/
Note this one also has no yellow circle around the Star
(possibly 41-14502 or 41-14508 pictured above)
P-40,33 Fighter Group Piloted by Daniel B. Rathbun, takes off from the USS Chenango in the Mediterranean near Casablana, Morocco,
during the U.S. campaign in North Africa. November 1942.Once again note the American flag painted on the fuselage of the P-40's
https://www.milsurps.com/
USS Chenango, The first picture is of the 33rd FG taking off from the Chenango as it was off of Casablanca on November 10th, 1942. This is most likely a plane from the 60th FS since they were the first off of the carrier. They landed at Port Lyautey. The take offs were halted due to damaged runways and resumed the next day.
http://raf-112-squadron.org/images/P-40Chenagobdeck.jpg
P-40Fs in the hanger deck aboard the USS Chenango (CVE-28) October 1942 enroute to North Africa.
Note the early style Star carried on some of the planes
http://raf-112-squadron.org/images/r...ruary_1943.jpghttp://www.wings-aviation.ch/22-USNa...henango-01.jpg
Great Pictures!
In the picture showing the P40 clearing the deck you can see the bridle dropping off the deck. You can also see the alignment fixture to the left of the right landing gear when the P40 is in the launch position. When launching "tail draggers" it is necessary to insure that the tail wheel is correctly aligned-fore and aft.
Hold back fixtures are aircraft peculiar,i.e, a different for each type of aircraft.
I believe that the CVB's introduced the steam cat in 1952.
One of the above pictures show how crowded the deck was any shows why catapult launch was necessary.