Saginaw/Irwin Pederson M1 Carbine. .30 Carbine. : Other Collectible Guns at GunBroker.com
I was sent this, but this is not what he wishes it was when he bought it. I've seen some start in the thousands. I will leave it up to the experts here.
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Saginaw/Irwin Pederson M1 Carbine. .30 Carbine. : Other Collectible Guns at GunBroker.com
I was sent this, but this is not what he wishes it was when he bought it. I've seen some start in the thousands. I will leave it up to the experts here.
I'm not understanding the Irwin Pedersen connection unless there are some parts marked as such. But no mention or pictures showing any.
Your got to be right, there might be a part or 2 inside the housing, but i would like to find out.
Didn't Saginaw take over Irwin Pederson when it failed to make standards? The steering gear division. Maybe it's some sort of a serial number thing? Like just into the change of management or something?
Yeah, I think that s/n falls in the second block assigned to the IP/SG Grand Rapids plant - so the seller is probably referring to the receiver and maybe the barrel. He's also got an Inland "parade" carbine listed on GB. - Bob
It's not unusual at to try and connect Saginaw S'G' and Irwin Pedersen in online gun auctions, mainly for greed purposes though. Most of us know the history betwen the two. But if someone can "claim" the receiver was made by IP (whether true or not) then they will gladly hail it as part of the limted number of IP receivers out there. In my book, an IP gun or receiver marked IP is just that and should be sold as that. A Saginaw S'G' marked receiver or gun is just that and should be marketed as that. That's probably too novel of an approach though in today's crazy M1 carbine market. BTW, there was definitely some overrun in serial numbers between Saginaw SG and Saginaw Grand Rapids; this particular carbine appears to be one.
Agreed, if this is his ploy, it's too thin and he's reaching. IP is IP... I thought it must be a serial number thing though.
Yes, it is within the last five thousand serial numbers assigned to IP. IP's contract was taken and given to Saginaw. But it is still marked S'G'. The other pictures are blurry. No mention of IP parts. Noticeably been through a rebuild. And just average condition. Even if someone is looking for that specific serial number range receiver, it would be a very costly restoration. Most likely will be left as is, a mixed part rebuilt carbine. An S'G' marked receiver usually brings a higher bid. For me, this one would be a minimum up charge.
I think adding IP to his title was his way of trying to generate more views and possibly get a higher selling price. As a buyer I would think it would draw rebuilt S'G' pricing, no more. A collector piece as being a WW2 carbine, but not what he calls a "great collector piece".
I was reading in one Ruth's Books and IP first set of stocks came from Rock-Ola, that would explain there marking in the Sling Well. But thats not even close as to why he used It other to get what Jim41 has just mentioned. Thanks
Frank
The TF/FT along with RMC marks in the slingwell are indicative of an early Underwood stock. The big box cartouche is rarely seen, but not overly rare to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
Good to Know...Now I can black out that portion of his Book.
IP only got up to a 1000 stocks from Rock-Ola and that was early on. They also got 200 stocks from Inland that were early too. The vast majority of IP stocks were from Robert Irwin Co.
IP only made a handful of their own parts.
IP integrated approximately 200 stocks from Inland, Oct /Nov 1942. And 1,000 from Rock Ola in late Dec 1942/Jan 1943.
RMC stocks from Rock Ola, and LA marked stocks from Inland, as well as Robert Irwin Co. IR-IP, IP-IR.
Yeah i saw that Rock-Ola and Inland has supplied a few stocks to them, but didnt know Inlands Marking of these stock made for them. Thanks for letting me know that. Ruths book didnt cover the markings from the Inland stocks they supplied to IP, but the Rock-Ola was the same. Thanks JimF4M1s.
Frank
If you have it, see War Baby page 414 to 424. Particularly page 419 the second stock entry.Quote:
Originally Posted by imntxs564
IP made almost all of their own parts. The front sight, barrel and barrel band and butt plate were from other venders. All the rest of the carbine parts was made in house. This was one of the major problems with IP. They would stop all production of a specific part if a new revision came along and that would hold up all of the carbine production.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s
I don't have my books open right now to check on other parts, but I have an S'G' carbine that has an IP marked rear sight and mag catch that came from "other vendors." - Bob
Bruce, did they make their own parts in house, or have them subcontracted out and marked IP-A, IP-W, IP-B, IP-SW, B-IP, RP, ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
Jim, To be honest with you I was thinking of bigger parts and not the smaller ones so your right about that. I was just thinking of slides, bolts, hammers and receivers.
I agree. They made the receiver, bolt, trigger housing, slide, hammer, firing pin and trigger. Pretty much the rest was contracted or integrated.