Chassepot Firing Needle Spring Issue

Good Afternoon. Getting frustrated with the '66. Cartridge seems good, fabricated needle seems good, musket cap being hit by needle but no ignition. Constructed the cartridge to specs from the board but getting no ignition.

Ready to make a spring but need suggestions on what to use and how much to cut. Three folks at the range watched the bolt and they said it looks real slow on the trigger-pull. When I dry fire, it just does not have that metal snap that I would expect. Happy Holidays to all.

Thanks, Randy

That post could have been written by me! I have exactly the same problem and if I find the solution I will let you know a.s.a.p.


Experience to date:
1) As you did, cartridges made up in the manner that apparently works for others - no ignition.
2) Firmed up spring by adding a shorter, harder spring to the one already present - no ignition.
3) Needle seemed to be driving cap into cartridge. Made up firmer cartridge - no ignition.
4) In desperation filled cartridge with hard wad. Needle went right through, leaving cap impaled on needle - no ignition.
5) the impaled cap ignited when fitted to an 1858 Enfield. So primer material was not defect.


The last two items lead me to suspect that the primer material in at least some of the caps is largely deposited around the edge, leaving little to none in the centre.
My next trial will be with a blunt needle to impact a larger area of the cap base.


Any creative comments will be welcome!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

Any creative comments will be welcome!

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Utilize a pellet from the tape type cap gun charges in or against a copper backer slightly thicker than what's standard now. Thinking that the striker ought not penetrate the backing of the pellet. Deform the backer, but not drive through. Used British primer cup from old .303 SAA might do. Rather larger than the usual large rifle cup diameter. Or maybe a musket cap doubled up with one that's been fired and bent back into shape?


Or...place a used LR cup inside the musket cap? Needle hits used cup which compresses the detonating compound without driving straight through...

Thank you gentlemen. Can we ask members who are having success to detail what components, specifications, and techniques they are using. Right now I am moving in very unknown territory and frustrated. Perhaps if we can reverse engineer from those who are achieving ignition, our '66s can come alive again. Thanks, Randy.

I heartily agree with you Randy. And JM, thanks for the ideas, I'll give them a try. Since I have managed to get some pretty dire objects to go "bang" properly - like a rimfire rifle and revolver - I am highly frustrated by this Chassepot, and have that irritating feeling of missing something so obvious that no-one else bothers to mention it!

Patrick,

What type of spring did you add to the Chassepot? I would like to try that before fabricating another, blunt nose this time, needle.

Thanks,
Randy

As I thought about Patrick's success with the 1858 Enfield, I am now thinking along the lines or Patrick's blunt needle idea to compress a wider area on the cap. The hammer on the '58 Enfield and my '62 Snider are huge in comparison to the tiny area the needles work with. Perhaps our colleagues in 1866 were working with much more sensitive primer materials that would ignite with the tiny needle point.

So, thinking along the lines of JM, I am now trying to figure how to bring enough force to smash/mash the cap without bending the needle. Almost convinced I will probably blunt/round the needle and hope it can penetrate the paper cartridge. Our friends with brass cases have rounded firing pins.

If all this fails, will try inserting the tiny, toy percussion caps. Some folks on YouTube state having very good results with sharpen needles. Randy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rescuerandy2

Patrick,

What type of spring did you add to the Chassepot? I would like to try that before fabricating another, blunt nose this time, needle.

Thanks,
Randy

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Just something I found in the "cellar stores" (a.k.a. junk box:D). I do have a book on spring calculation and winding, but haven't yet become desperate enough to use it.

"Perhaps our colleagues in 1866 were working with much more sensitive primer materials that would ignite with the tiny needle point."

- Yes indeed. They were probably using fulminates etc. that would go bang if you merely looked at them sharply!

I've had 100% ignition with my Chassepot cartridges following advice from the fellow on Youtube who suggested inserting the plastic toy caps inside of the musket cap and by sprinkling a few grains of FFF swiss black powder around all of that prior to gluing the cap to paper insert. I also had some issues related to not compacting the load firmly enough. Hope this helps.

Good Afternoon,

The small toy cap worked and the Chassepot fired with no issues!! Going to the range once a month had me working this problem for 4 months. This morning I finally had success just taking 38 years to get too.

See below for the link to the Youtube video using the toy cap:

Reloading For The 11.6mm Chassepot Needle Rifle - YouTube

Thanks,
Randy

Brilliant! When do we get to see the range report?

With my once a month schedule, I will have a range report 21 February. Right now I am fabricating 20 cartridges for next month and also working on another issue.

The "bolt head" with the gasket looks corroded as expected. However, I am concerned that when I begin to shoot multiple rounds there is going to be a failure in short order. I am going to try coating the part with high temp enamel to see if that will slow down the process. If not, I am in search of parts again.

Randy

Is the needle striking the cap against a hard surface, as the cap compound in the cap needs to be between two points ie the needle and a anvil ie a hard surface.