No. 4T range gun

Did a post about this rifle a while back wherein I learned that it has been refurbished, probably sunkorite on parkerizing. I still find the finish a little strange- too perfect. If an arsenal refurb, it was clearly not used post refurb and it's original barrel has a near perfect bore. In any case, as purchased by me it had a longitudinal crack running right through the wood in the draws area which appears to be due to the (butt)stock-bolt protruding. It bent the strap and cracked the forend- possibly without a shot being fired. The draws were still a very snug fit so I decided to simply replace the strap and glue the crack which appears to have worked. Also had to shorten the front triggerguard screw a bit for a good clamp on the wood. I purchased a No. 32 MkII with an original bracket to use on it (previous owner claims it was overhauled by Capt. Laidler- Peter, I'll bet you hear that a lot!). However, the scope is excellent and, by fluke, the bracket is reasonably well collimated to the rifle bore. Got it to the range before Christmas and, in the midst of the painful MkI/II zeroing process, shot the 5 shot group shown. Well within the 3X3 inch square required by the Canadian EME manual and suggestive of good potential with more careful shooting. Was using Remington FMJ which works well in most of my Lee Enfields. Incidentally, the crescent wrench on the shooting bench was used to "adjust" the scope mount on my Tokarev SVT 40- not on the "T". Happy New Year everyone.

Ridolpho

Nice looking combination all the same Ridolpho. Of course Peter is the one to say if the scope went through his hands or not, but giving it a dekko I reckon I already know the answer.

I have it recorded as '.......resurrected from dire condition in 1/95. Probably ex India with W mod. It looks as though the fibre/dowty desiccation seal is missing from below the red desiccation screw

It has 'that look' & the dessication screw..........says it all!

Thank's for that info, Peter. Very effective repair! It is working like a charm 20 years on. Very clear image and very smooth functioning of range/ windage drums. I assume the dessication seal is to keep moisture out- not a big problem in Alberta most of the time.

Ridolpho

Ridolpho just a question for you on what I found out with my T do not ask me why but it detests being shot from a bag (Handful of wheat group) for one reason or another it shines from use of the sling and yourself in the prone position as I had a similar group to yours off a rest and whilst in spec the POI was scattered plus it did not like WIN-748 anyway went to old load and prone position and witnessed by the target marker 3 shots in 1" Fig 11 targets chest shifted POA to the head and put 3 in 3/8ths " @100M.
So by some mysterious measure maybe your T does not like being shot from a rest either ??

I don't really know yet, Cinders. have only had it to the range once and was mainly occupied with the zeroing process. I do know that I personally can't shoot as tight groups prone as from a supported left hand on a bench with anything! My other (well worn) "T" will put 3 in an inch off the sandbag although for a more meaningful 5 shot group the best I've ever managed is about 1.5 inch. With the present rifle, I think the trigger will need to be worked on as it is quite a heavy pull and has a bit more creep than my best ones. On the day of my test of this "T" I also was shooting an SVT with a (typically) horrific trigger pull and it probably doesn't help shooting two with such radically different characteristics on the same range visit. Regards.

Ridolpho

Cinders, how far in front of the mag are you resting your T? I've noticed that mine shoot differently if rested too far out. I figure it's changing the stock tip tension and screwing with the harmonics because it don't make no difference where I rest the L42 with it's floated barrel nothing changes. Same thing with my M1A, too far from the mag and it starts shooting buckshot groups.

I sat it just in front of the center band so that the band was recoiling away from the back of the bag, I have the bag filled with Garnet and it is pretty hard though not as hard as a table top there has to be some give and agreed there is a vast difference in the weapons from my purpose built match F class rifle to a built for a purpose rifle in the T.
I actually just threw out the 25yd (22.8M) target I used that I downloaded from this web site to see where the drums were at for elevation but understand guys I was messing with WIN~748 which I was trying to get velocity for a lower working pressure sorta like 2440fps for around 38,000@ psi but it was just not coming together and I was getting nowhere in a hurry so went back to a load my other shooting 3oh's like and it worked at treat.

I bear in mind they are all different beasts in their own rite and what works in my T may not be digested very well by another, it is allot of fun doing up loads but I cannot afford to procure another T as my wife is already at her limit with what I have amassed and really I cannot blame her as when you shell out a fair whack of money and then gingerly feed the thing to preserve it she often wonders why I do not shoot the T more.
If I keep shooting it and wearing it out and have a spare barrel put in its not a T or put a spare in and shoot it well I then miss out on as issued Spec 1 category, I would love a whole safe full of T's, L42's and a M-82 not sure about that one I have a PH 1200 22/250 I could do up as a replica but it is not the same.
I am hoping to have a go in Nov '15 at the sniper shoot here and will get the dope on the ranges we shoot think its 3-5-600M, but if you have followed my T's story it has had me a bit twisted up in what it was doing, it cost me a fair few dollars to procure then more $'s getting right all the while having to justify the expenditure to the minister for war and finance. :yikes:

Next time out try resting the fore end up close the magazine and see if it improves anything. It's been my observation that the vast majority of rifles having skinny non-floated barrels are finicky as hell about where the fore end is supported. Most of the time they produce tighter groups when the support point is in close proximity to the front action screw.

Great looking rifle and pictures!

Very Very nice 4T - well done:)

I asked my dad last night where he supported his 4T when zeroing in. He did this at 300 yards and rested the rifle just behind the front sling mount.
I suspect this was on a sand bag as it was during WW2. Can't add much more but thought it might be of interest.

Regards,
Ian.

We did them from the Enfield rest at work but when they were returned to the unit, the AFG 1045 was always endorsed 'SNIPER RIFLE. Final zeroing of this rifle is the responsibility of the end user'

As for zeroing on an open range, to ensure a standard measure we ALWAYS fired over a sandbag, with the hand gripping the fore-end immediately in front of the magazine with the fore-arm/wrist supported by the sandbag (which you shaped for comfort!).

It was because we always zeroed like this when not on our usual test range (regardless of the distance) and the sniper might use another method of holding, with the sling forwards or at the trigger guard or in different variations to suit his preference that we specified that HE was the final arbiter of the zeroing process. Mind you WE were the final arbitters of the ACCURACY. Accuracy and zeroing not being the same thing..............

We had most(?) or certainly lots of the wartime sniper course photos at Warminster. I seem to remember 3 snipers from a pair of sniper teams (Royal Lincolnshire Regt and KSLI) identified themselves from the photos as welkl as putting some names to others on their particular course. Maybe you should have spoken earlier.........

I tend to grip the forend as Peter suggests but try to use the bag as a stabilizer and only lightly rest my wrist on it. That way when switching to prone it doesn't feel too different. I can't wait to get this rifle back to the range but realized this morning that may be four months off- last spring the access road was snowed in until around May 15! In an effort to test the accuracy of my rifles more effectively I finally got around to doing some handloads over the Christmas break but, surprisingly, found almost zero bullet availability across the country and only found some in Quebec late in December. It will be interesting to see if it was worth the effort.

Ridolpho

Blimey Ridolpho.....if you're snowed in till May how does Mrs Ridolpho get to the shops?? By helicopter? My missus took it on board that the UK economy was only going to revive when consumers started spending money again - so she does, lots of it, & regularly! Gok how she'd cope if she was snowed in! ;)

P.S. Whoops! Sorry. Misread your range being snowed in as your home. Mea culpa.

Believe me, Roger, Mrs. Ridolpho more than does her part for the economy! It's her guilt over huge fabric purchases (for quilting) that allows me to buy the odd rifle. Mind you, with $40.00/bbl oil we all may be unemployed in Alberta before long requiring us to move back to Saskatchewan and farm again. At least out there I can shoot on my own land.

Ridolpho

As you purchased the rifle from me Ridolpho, I'm sorry to hear about the forend. Was there a washer under the bolt? Perhaps I mistakenly left it off when refitting the butt. We didn't discuss it at the time, but I can confirm that I refinished the rifle in the late 80s or early 90s. That was done to suit my tastes, if anyone wonders, since it wasn't sold until more than ten years later. Everything on it is original to it as I received it, except the finish. For the record, it was glass beaded at low pressure, parkerized and painted with as good a paint as I could then get. Not Suncorite, but over good, fresh parkerizing, any decent paint becomes very durable as it soaks into the structure of the coating. I've seen that kind of finish survive a trip through the barreling vise unmarked.

I hope it's proven to be a good investment and a source of pleasure.

Surpmil: Yes, there was a washer in there so God only knows why the end of the bolt was protruding so far but you can see the dimple on the strap in the photos- I measured almost 3/16in protrusion. The front triggerguard bushing was also way too long and there was no real clamping of the wood. I'm not surprised to find out it was re-finished as the paint does not look like suncorite and the rifle is so perfect looking.As I said at the outset, I was suspicious. Given the pristine appearance of the bore I'm surprised the cosmetics needed re-doing but, as you say, it was to suit your tastes. It's a very nice rifle and I plan to shoot it a lot but, I must say, had you mentioned it had been re-finished post service I likely wouldn't have bought it given that I can't justify having more than two T's in my collection and prefer authenticity. As far as how it has been as an investment I guess I'll find out when I go to sell it and have to tell prospective buyers that it's been re-finished. In any case, I don't collect as an investment and plan to simply enjoy it as a T that I can shoot without worrying about. Regards.

Rudolpho

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

Surpmil: Yes, there was a washer in there so God only knows why the end of the bolt was protruding so far but you can see the dimple on the strap in the photos- I measured almost 3/16in protrusion. The front triggerguard bushing was also way too long and there was no real clamping of the wood. I'm not surprised to find out it was re-finished as the paint does not look like suncorite and the rifle is so perfect looking.As I said at the outset, I was suspicious. Given the pristine appearance of the bore I'm surprised the cosmetics needed re-doing but, as you say, it was to suit your tastes. It's a very nice rifle and I plan to shoot it a lot but, I must say, had you mentioned it had been re-finished post service I likely wouldn't have bought it given that I can't justify having more than two T's in my collection and prefer authenticity. As far as how it has been as an investment I guess I'll find out when I go to sell it and have to tell prospective buyers that it's been re-finished. In any case, I don't collect as an investment and plan to simply enjoy it as a T that I can shoot without worrying about. Regards.

Rudolpho

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I'm afraid it's too long ago for me to say much more on the stocking; nothing was changed by me except the dents were steamed out and the stock lightly sanded and well oiled. I think it will be only a matter of time until the attitude that is extended to say Garands, where reparking and restocking seems to accepted as routine, is extended to other rifles.

Should you ever wish to sell it, I would glad to buy it back from you for what you paid me.

Surpmil: Yes, you're right about the attitude towards re-finished Garands, etc. Frankly, what irks me most is someone throwing a well used and heavily patinated barreled No. 1 or No. 4 action into a new stock/ forend and calling it restored- just doesn't look right. If the metal was refinished to the excellent standards you achieved with this No. 4 the results would be far superior and, I would think, more valuable. Thanks for your offer to buy it back but with shooting season approaching and Peter's overhauled scope zeroed in I think I'll keep her.

Ridolpho