two groove barrel question but NOT about accuracy......

Just out interest was it LB and Savage who only produced two groove barrels or did any UK manufacturer try their hand ?

Only ask as I Bought a No4 some time back for the barrel but took delivery last week, it was described as a No4 Mk2 Sporterized, but is a Maltby No4 Mk1 (1942), I was expecting the normal kind abuse to the body but was surprised as it was untouched and retained its black phosphate finish but no signs of paint etc, no FTR marks either, the barrel was as described by the seller and has plenty of life left in it.

As the whole rifle is in good condition so will leave as is and someday get round to putting some timber on it.

Pic 5 is not that clear but has a D before the V and followed by a 3 (pic 6)

just intrigued by the barrel, has no savage or LB markings, have some pics below, one looks like a small M on the underneath, also the crows foot on the body I thought was south African but they have a U this looks like it should of been an oval.

Its been to the states at some point in its life as its got an England stamp on the wrist. Serial No has been re stamped also, the barrel has a rough finish but looks original to the body..... pics below. (the sporterized fore-end was removed for pics)


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...f804b2f7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dea3b3e1-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...60009b59-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...589f5a16-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a3f3e0b9-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...fd53f49d-1.jpg

I have a Maltby in similar condition (w/ furniture) with a 2 grove barrel. I was told it was a Savage barrel, but then again I have never striped it to look for Savage marks.

2 groove barrels were produced in the UK including the fabricated/pinned two-piece Mk2 barrel which was also a 2 groover.

While the two groovers were obsolescent, they were never obsolete. However, the pinned Mk2 barrel WAS obsolete. I only ever saw one Mk2 barrel in service (that I recognised as such anyway....) and that was in New Zealand. You would still find new 2 groove barrels coming through the system

Are you sure that pic No.5 does not say AJ? in which case it would be an Aussie barrel made for the target rifle boys and should be dated early 60's.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

2 groove barrels were produced in the UK including the fabricated/pinned two-piece Mk2 barrel which was also a 2 groover.

While the two groovers were obsolescent, they were never obsolete. However, the pinned Mk2 barrel WAS obsolete. I only ever saw one Mk2 barrel in service (that I recognised as such anyway....) and that was in New Zealand. You would still find new 2 groove barrels coming through the system

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Thanks Peter, any info regarding who manufactured them ?

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Originally Posted by muffett.2008

Are you sure that pic No.5 does not say AJ? in which case it would be an Aussie barrel made for the target rifle boys and should be dated early 60's.

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Muffer, Its definitely D V, just hard trying to get a pic its a very faint D, the D, V and 3 are reasonably spaced (and uneven) with what looks like some inspectors mark above.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it isn't the original barrel. I used to have a Maltby 4T with a 2 groove barrel on it, & whilst I can't prove it I think it was probably factory original. Another example of never say never....

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 PM ----------

In fact, it just dawned on me that I shall be going to have a look at a couple of dozen early UK mfr No4's (mainly 1941 & 1942) soon. The owner has already told me that most seem to have 2 grove tubes on them, so I'll have a good look to see if they're the original barrels, & if so, what manufacturer(s) they are. Might be a couple of weeks before I get there though.

Big Duke - some barrels at Newark next week + an interesting 'lot' :

Lot No. 15 A box of sixteen receivers. Long Lee/Enfield Serial Nos.9305F, 1969E, 7967B, 17E, 3620E, 9349, 0083, 43533, 4739, 130B, NVN. P14 Serial Nos.W178588 and 92596. Mauser Serial Nos.R15973 and NVN and a Carcano NVN.

And

Lot No. 5 The barrelled action and bolt of a .303 Cal. No.4 Rifle. Serial No.A3790. The action marked -Alfred J.Parker-. Grade 2

Accles and Pollock rolled the 2 groove Mk3 barrels as tubes which then had the reinforce part shrunk on and pinned. The join was a very fine line that you could get a slight oil squeeze from it if the barrel part was loose on the reinforce We had a couple in Mr Ayleys classroom at Carlisle that we all had to look at but like I said, I only saw one in service that I recognised, simply because it was loose! Quite a few on DP rifles though where it didn't count.

A&P also (supposedly) made 2 groove rolled Bren barrels called the Mk4. I say supposedly as I never saw one or know anyone who has seen them!* I have to say that it's one thing to roll a slender No4 barrel over a mandrill but quite another to roll a hefty Bren barrel! Annanuvverfing too. It was Major Shepherd ably assisted by his pal Horold Turpin - both of Sten gun fame who developed the mandrill rolling barrelmaking process.

* ready to be shot down in flames re this but I ain't seen one and I have seen a few Bren barrels

Thanks Alan, I had a quick look through the lots, I,ve got enough receivers to keep me going for some time...... I,ll probably put a postal bid in for a few of the lots, I get fed up of waiting for him to shift the shotguns, should leave these till the end and let the popular stuff go first.....

Could that be an incompletely stamped "C" with a Broad Arrow on your L-E action?

It does have a Canadian ownership mark on top of the breech. I'm sure it's the original British made barrel. Nice rifle.

Ive got a few 43 dated No4s with 2 groove rifling will strip and view the markings over the weekend

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

I wouldn't be at all surprised if it isn't the original barrel. I used to have a Maltby 4T with a 2 groove barrel on it, & whilst I can't prove it I think it was probably factory original. Another example of never say never....

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 PM ----------

In fact, it just dawned on me that I shall be going to have a look at a couple of dozen early UK mfr No4's (mainly 1941 & 1942) soon. The owner has already told me that most seem to have 2 grove tubes on them, so I'll have a good look to see if they're the original barrels, & if so, what manufacturer(s) they are. Might be a couple of weeks before I get there though.

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Thanks Rog, I didn't think run of the mill No4's floated your boat ? anyway your ebay items seem to be doing well.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

Could that be an incompletely stamped "C" with a Broad Arrow on your L-E action?

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Wasn't sure so left it to the forum members to decide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

It does have a Canadian ownership mark on top of the breech. I'm sure it's the original British made barrel. Nice rifle.

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Thanks Brian, I thought the same about the barrel its got that look about it (if that makes any sense)

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Originally Posted by Simon P

Ive got a few 43 dated No4s with 2 groove rifling will strip and view the markings over the weekend

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Thanks Simon, guess your going to Newark on Wednesday ?

I have an early Fazakerly No 4 built on a No 1 Mk VI action which is fitted with a 2 groove barrel. It is featured on Jay Currah's website attached to this forum.
The left but socket is marked
ROF
41
24506A

Barrel markings are :-

B19
41
Crown over N Over 32
Crown over N over 19
Crown over N over 26
123
Crown over M over Crossed flags over P
Crown over 43 over E on it’s side

I have always assumed it to be of Maltby manufacture with an Enfield examiners final inspection stamp.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Thanks Simon, guess your going to Newark on Wednesday ?

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I'm going to give it a miss this time, not much for me and have a few nice bits coming in over the next 4 weeks. i tend to come away from there with to many projects and the Armoury is fall of them at the moment.