Sight question/new carbine

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01-30-2015, 06:19 PM
shamrocks

4 Attachment(s)

Sight question/new carbine

I was at the local gun store today asking about ordering a pistol when I happened to see on the wall a M1 Carbine. It turned out to be a Standard Products with Underwood barrel and couldn't resist it for the price.. I would like opinions on this sight as to real or repro. Curiously the carbine had the bayonet lug on it and struck me as curious why someone would add this sight but not replace the barrel band/lug if they were restoring it but maybe they never got around to it. I think it's likely repro but not sure. No letters on it I can see and two stake marks that align with the right side of the sight base. A couple photos didn't come out that great so I can take another if needed and if anyone can date this carbine for me I would appreciate it. I can't find my book with the production dates at the moment.
Will post some other pics and details later as to parts.
Thanks!
01-30-2015, 07:26 PM
USGI

My opinion on the sight is "repro" judging by the base pin and lack of staking. The overall appearance of the sight looks too new, and also they may not have had the right tools for getting it situated for windage. I can't help on the manufacture date. Let's see the rest of it! - Bob
01-30-2015, 07:46 PM
shamrocks

Thanks. I thought repo as well but just wanted to be sure before I go ahead and replace it. I'll take some photos tomorrow when the light is better.
01-30-2015, 11:29 PM
imarangemaster

Yep, i second the opinion it is a repro. It would be nice to see pics of the whole weapon!
01-30-2015, 11:51 PM
browningautorifle

Isn't that a gap under the front of the sight base as well? Seems it doesn't even fit...
01-31-2015, 08:06 AM
shamrocks

9 Attachment(s)

Std Products carbine Pics

I had a chance to take a few photos this morning. From what I can tell looking at the serial no. blocks it was made late 1943 or Jan 1944. I got a really nice price on it of $675 I couldn't pass up (that included tax) Haven't checked the trigger or sear for markings or the firing pin but the others are...Inland hi wood stock OI in sling well and hand guard, WU marked Operating Slide, round Inland bolt IO 2, Underwood barrel ?/44 dated, hammer LT-Q, circled A post war barrel band/lug, Inland DI recoil plate, Inland butt plate, unmarked front sight, and I believe a Std Pro housing, CC over M mag catch face, and rotary safety with circled M. It all looks in really nice condition and I have already located a correct rear sight that I will swap out with the repro flip. it has great head space but the muzzle is 3 on my gage but with nice grooves and no rust or pitting. Given the date of production I wonder if the barrel might be original to the receiver.
01-31-2015, 01:27 PM
INLAND44

I think its a nice updated or rebuilt carbine except the flip sight (real or fake) is out of place - it should have an adjustable sight with the bayo lug and round bolt. You can still find new surplus adjustables. Probably a stamped Hemphill 'H' in shield would be about right.
01-31-2015, 02:54 PM
deldriver

You are well within the range where Standard Products was using the type II milled sight with a H in a shield. I wonder if the person who put the fake rear sight on actually removed the correct sight in the process. Stupidity like that is making it nearly impssible to collect these guns without a bunch of hand wringing.
01-31-2015, 03:19 PM
painter777

Hello Shams,
Well worth the money spent.
Now shoot it!!

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777
01-31-2015, 04:20 PM
deldriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by deldriver

You are well within the range where Standard Products was using the type II milled sight with a H in a shield. I wonder if the person who put the fake rear sight on actually removed the correct sight in the process. Stupidity like that is making it nearly impossible to collect these guns without a bunch of hand wringing.

BTW, that's a very nice price though given today's current market.
01-31-2015, 05:49 PM
Rustship

Quote:

Originally Posted by INLAND44

I think its a nice updated or rebuilt carbine except the flip sight (real or fake) is out of place - it should have an adjustable sight with the bayo lug and round bolt. You can still find new surplus adjustables. Probably a stamped Hemphill 'H' in shield would be about right.

Im pretty sure the Bolt should be a Flat Bolt.
01-31-2015, 05:49 PM
shamrocks

I found a type 2 sight with the H on GB today from Eddy Yuja so will put that on it when it arrives and then take it out for a good test run.
It would not surprise me at all if someone removed the correct sight to put on that repop but I'll never know.
01-31-2015, 06:57 PM
browningautorifle

It IS a nice looking carbine though...
02-01-2015, 10:56 PM
INLAND44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rustship

Im pretty sure the Bolt should be a Flat Bolt.

Its an updated or rebuilt carbine, so the round bolt is now correct.
02-02-2015, 09:40 AM
Rustship

Quote:

Originally Posted by INLAND44

Its an updated or rebuilt carbine, so the round bolt is now correct.

I took it out of Context, what I meant is it was produced with a Flat Bolt, but it could have left arsenal with a Flat Bolt or a Round if it needed it. Not every Carbine left the Arsenal with the Bolt being replaced. That's what I meant.
02-02-2015, 01:00 PM
shamrocks

Thanks for the comments. I have toyed with the idea of finding a type 2 barrel band to put on it once I get the proper rear sight on. Probably won't since it has been re-arsenaled but still a tempting idea.
02-02-2015, 01:07 PM
painter777

Shamrocks,
Tempting....... But the pad wear on the barrel from having the Bayo band will show.
Plus the fact a T2 band will cost about a 1/4 of what you have invested.
Put the Adj rear sight on and enjoy it.
BTW....... You just can't beat Eddy, Can You??

Nice to see you back around.

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777

P.S.
Memory refresher:
Oil that rear sight first with a good penetrating oil.
Remember with muzzle pointed away, Tap rear sight off from left to the right.

When putting on the new Adj site, Crank the windage all the way to the right.
Install from right to left. Again with muzzle pointed away.

I just had a Rear Adj shoot loose, A couple lite drops of Blue Loctite seems to have worked.
02-02-2015, 01:46 PM
shamrocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by painter777

Shamrocks,
Tempting....... But the pad wear on the barrel from having the Bayo band will show.
Plus the fact a T2 band will cost about a 1/4 of what you have invested.
Put the Adj rear sight on and enjoy it.
BTW....... You just can't beat Eddy, Can You??

Nice to see you back around.

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777

P.S.
Memory refresher:
Oil that rear sight first with a good penetrating oil.
Remember with muzzle pointed away, Tap rear sight off from left to the right.

When putting on the new Adj site, Crank the windage all the way to the right.
Install from right to left. Again with muzzle pointed away.

I just had a Rear Adj shoot loose, A couple lite drops of Blue Loctite seems to have worked.

Thanks Charlie. I haven't been doing too much with carbines for awhile now with a lot of other things taking my time but couldn't resist this one when I stumbled across it. You're right, it's always great to do business with Eddy and I am going to go out in the next couple days to shoot it before the sight arrives and go back later to sight it in. Thanks for the P.S. about the removal/install. I had to refresh my memory on that since it's been awhile and the blue loctite sounds like a plan as well just in case.
02-02-2015, 02:30 PM
painter777

Shamrocks,
Been trying to checkout your trigger housing.
See that it has the narrow mag wall.
Are the receiver lugs beveled on the rear?

I'd expect to see a later housing on a Stan Pro, like Type III or Type IV brazed.

Just curious about this one :confused:

CH-P777
02-02-2015, 03:31 PM
shamrocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by painter777

Shamrocks,
Been trying to checkout your trigger housing.
See that it has the narrow mag wall.
Are the receiver lugs beveled on the rear?

I'd expect to see a later housing on a Stan Pro, like Type III or Type IV brazed.

Just curious about this one :confused:

CH-P777

For some reason I hadn't paid that much attention to the lugs, but yes, they are beveled. I can not make out what any markings might have been. The couple that are there are not legible at all.
02-02-2015, 05:07 PM
painter777

No milled angle between the front lugs?

See if the cut out inside bottom has a oblong ovaled look, like the Winchesters.

Really need better pics. Try macro mode.

CH-P777
02-02-2015, 05:24 PM
painter777

WRA Type II Wide Wall

WRA Oblong cut out:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08427-1.jpg

Markings:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08414-1.jpg

NOTE:
Very early Type I WRA housings were found stamped with just a O

But I believe these were very few.
Look for any numbers and or letters stamped on the outside bottom of the housing.

Like this:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08415-1.jpg

Serif K Under Right Side Shelf of Trigger Housing:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08417-1.jpg

Side view of a WRA Type II- Rear beveled corners, No bevel front, Wide wall:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08419-1.jpg
02-02-2015, 05:35 PM
shamrocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by painter777

No milled angle between the front lugs?

See if the cut out inside bottom has a oblong ovaled look, like the Winchesters.

Really need better pics. Try macro mode.

CH-P777

Flat/straight between the front lugs. It just may be a Winchester. Under a loop, there is the bottom part of something like what is similar to the one you show above the W.....sort of like bottom part of a letter/crescent shape and what looks like 0 just under the slide release face and 88 in front of trigger guard.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wla8ugjw-1.jpg
02-02-2015, 05:57 PM
shamrocks

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mwe6y8kz-1.jpg
02-02-2015, 09:50 PM
painter777

Since your hammer pin is in backward (should go in from left side to right)
I'd pull the hammer, spring and hammer strut.

If you then see the hole shaped like the one I pictured (the hole where you'll see the side of the safety in) you know you have a WRA TH.
It sure looks like one to me.

Next question would be:

Having rear bevels and narrow rear mag wall but no front bevel.................
Would this be a late Type I (with NO Front bevel )?

Or:

Is it a EARLY Type II with rear bevel , No front bevel, BUT still has narrow rear magwall?

Moved too much snow today and don't have the energy left to dig out the books needed to answer.
But hopefully Newscotlander or BQ will chime in and help out.

Great buy!

Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777

P.S.
You're hammer shows hits from both the straight hammer and a Dogleg:
02-03-2015, 07:12 PM
shamrocks

Charlie, got around to taking another photo with parts removed. I took the trigger out after the photo and By the way, remind me to never do that again without having a trigger install tool:move eek: I don't have one anymore and it took me a lot of effort to get the trigger spring back in. At least now I know the trigger and sear are both RIA.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...zuqczflx-1.jpg
02-03-2015, 09:00 PM
JimF4M1s (Deceased)

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamrocks

I took the trigger out after the photo and By the way, remind me to never do that again without having a trigger install tool:move eek: I don't have one anymore and it took me a lot of effort to get the trigger spring back in.

You can use the front end of a ball point pen.
02-09-2015, 12:12 PM
shamrocks

Just wanted to say thanks Charlie for all the info and for the tip on the blue Loctite. I put the type II sight on today and definitely needed it as the sight was pretty loose in the dovetail. That sucker should be plenty firm now though as I squeezed out more than I meant to and got one really big drop instead of a couple smaller ones.:lol: