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Picked up this Winchester at the last show. It has been re-worked and is a mix master. The trigger group is inland, and the mag release is Irwin pederson. All other parts are marked winchester. The bore looks bright and it groups well. I have worked up a load of 12.7 of IMR 4227 behind a 115gr cast bullet. I purchased the mold from NOE and size them .3105. Be honest... at $400 was this a good buy? Sorry the pics are not very good.
You know you did fine. Even as just a shooter it's worth that much. Your load for .30 carbine sounds about like the one I used for years...with good results always.
Lol, I wouldn't have asked that question in today's market and some of yesterday's market too! What's the first two digits of the serial number on your Winchester? It may not be as much of a mix-master as you think.
The wood looks so nice I'd have suspected an aftermarket stock.
Or sanded.
But no mind it was a good price and a little bragging about the find is OK.
Welcome to the Carbine forum.
It would be interesting to see the parts and markings if you get a chance to play with your camera.
Jim
Yeah, it is an aftermarket stock. I friend of mine is REALLY good at stock refinishing, and he did it for me free of charge. I had him shape it like an early M1, not the M2 it was. It was really thick and bulky, so he thinned it down to my tastes. I can always pick up a USGI stock at a gun show. It shoots really good. I coach basketball, so our season is winding down. I will have a little time to take a few pictures later this week. I would gladly take comments about what I have from some of you experts. I know the price was a little lower than normal rates, but with it being a mixmaster, and with the non-USGI stock, I wasn't exactly sure. Sadly, my last carbine I purchased when I was 16 for $125. I sold it for $150 about two years later. Boy am I an idiot. Did the same with an M1 Garand about the same time. Not now. This one will stay with me for a looong time. I'll post pics later, and maybe this thing will surprise me. I've heard that Irwin Pederson parts are rare and pricey.
Thanks for all the input... Let's go win a basketball game...
D Driver,
Is it me?
Or am I seeing a Underwood type bombshell stamp on the rear tang?
Expand his 2nd picture to full size.
Serial number will be interesting.
Welcome JasonA,
Cheers,
Charlie-Painter777
I do see what looks like the remnants of an Underwood flaming bomb (just right of center and towards the top). However, I can't get the clearest monitor resolution to say with 100 percent certainly that what it is. Hopefully someone else with a better monitor can verify that's it a flaming UEF bomb. I will say that the milling of the heal looks very Winchester to me. I actually pulled out an Underwood 2.85 and a Winchester 6.56 and compared the two. Something does look weird to me though...I just can't say with enough certainty of exactly what it may or may not be. If I had to venture a guess on the serial it looks like a 5.74, but will have to wait for the OP to verify.Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
I took one more look at far rear right side of my Winchester 6.56 receiver. It's identical to the one in the OP's picture. My Underwood receiver doesn't continue the cut for the slide track back near as far as the Winchester does.
SN is 5743XXX.
That is a nice carbine and a really nice price. Ya done good! :thup:
Okay, my eyes must not be as bad as I thought then! Anyway, I have a 5.74 Winchester too. Our guns may have had their serial numbers stamped on the same day in fact. Clearly there would be no UEF ordnance bomb on heal if it's a Winchester receiver, so that can be put away I'm pretty sure. Can you do a closeup of the left side of the barrel band? I am just making sure it's the correct one or trying to at least. Winchester was having some manufacturing issue during the time our carbines were produced. It's nice to see some of them still around.Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonA
Here is my 5.7 mil. The rear sight is a tab lose but original. The punch marks shown in this picture line up but the sight is pushed off to the right side a bit.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...original-1.jpg
From a reference, the last Winchester number applied to a receiver for the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by deldriver
July 12 1944................5,742,670
July 13 1944................5,743,644
July 15 1944................5,745,805
Cool....l guess mine was made on the 14 or 15th??? The day of the 14th in 1944 was a Friday. The 15th was a Saturday. Who knows??? I will take more pics of my rifle on Wednesday night and post them on Thursday.
Jason
Ok all you experts, tell me what I really have now. I did the best I could with the pictures. The group was the first shooting outing with this one. My handloads at about 50 yds off my bench. I did take a picture of the barrel markings, but it has a capital W on it about 4 inches from the front sight and a proof mark behind that. My camera was not cooperation with auto focus and I could not get it clear after many tries, so I quit trying.
I know what Charlie was seeing on the receiver heal now. I have seen that exact mark and similar ones on a few other M1 carbines over the years, but never a definite explanation of what was. If you go by the plum color of the trigger housing there's the possibility of it being a Bavarian mark, but there's little or no other evidence on the gun that suggests that's what it's a Bavarian carbine. Overall, it's a nice carbine, especially at that price. Looks like the stock has a M2 cut over on the left hand side. Are there any other markings on it?
The stock appeared to be an aftermarket. It was an M2 configuration, but I don't like the bot bellied look and since there were no markings of any kind, I had a buddy of mine who is a professional stock man reshaped it and refinish it for me. It feels really good. I think the mark you are seeing is a number 3 in a partial circle?? I can't get my camera to focus on it... I tried. So... yes it does have the M2 selector cut-out. What markings would a bavarian used M1 have???
I see the circle with a "3" inside it.
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....2&d=1423145956
Bavarian carbines usually, but not always are marked on the top left hand side of the receiver rail with the area and agency the carbine was assigned to. The finish is usually a black oxide that can be very black to a barely there look. Bavarian carbines often have a certain number of serial number digits stamped into most, but not all of the parts. Again, I don't see any other evidence that your carbine is a Bavarian other than the plum trigger housing, but that doesn't make it a guarantee either. Does the screw tip on the barrel band match up with the two round pinch marks or is it lower by a bit? There will also be a horizontal line about 2/3 of the way down the left side of the band. These are clues of the band being one used by Winchester. The right side looks good, but the left side will verify it as such.Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonA
I was over at the CMP auction site and saw this, look at the last picture and blow it up. The receiver is marked Bavarian. Could these be the same heel marks ?
Civilian Marksmanship Program - Promoting firearms safety training!
PS Is that gun breaking the bank or what !
This is a flaming bomb which is rather common to find on Underwoods :)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d49cb1a2-1.jpg
Thanks Bill: I't looked like the right side of the circle around the 3 is missing. Likewise the bomb has only a semi circle as well. Hope I'm making sence. So what would the 3 stand for. Humm ?
I'm sure it's understood that the OP's receiver is Winchester and not Underwood. It's an odd mark that's not seen that often of carbine receivers. It seems like I've seen a CCNL where the subject of a number inside a circle was brought up by a writer trying seek input from those that may know what it meant. I'll look around and see if I can find the article. It seems like it was a recent edition too, so it may a little easier to find. I think I remember that the receiver wasn't the only place marked too.
Okay, found a mention in two newsletters. First in 176, and finally 372. The thought is that it's a possible import mark, but there is no theory to where the carbines came from that the circled 3 appeared on. The circle is mentioned as being semi as well as a full circle.
I would like to say thanks for all who have commented. You learn by asking and asking the right people. I'll keeping checking in on the forums and soaking it all in. The post about a winchester carbine from yesterday that needed a little TLC had good pics of the the way my carbine's barrel is marked. The W and the proof mark is the same. Once again, thanks for the comments. Basketball season is over and now it is wait for a few nice weather days to suddenly and acutely become very "ill" and unable to go to work. I have 100+ sick days that I would hate to waste...
---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------
BTW, I know this is off topic, but I went to the CMP link shown in this thread and two things....one my price was really good, granted it is a mixmaster and the stock is not USGI, second... where are these carbines at in the CMP store? I've been to the Anniston store twice and all I say was junk. Stuff that looked like it had been laying in the river or a field for 25 years. No carbines at all.... a few ROUGH Garands, and that's about it. Each time I was going to purchase a carbine, but no luck. I was confused. I live about 2 hours from the store, so it's a nice half day trip, but if nothing's changed, it's not worth the trip. Sorry to rant....have a great day.
They are on their auction site not in the store.
Jason, I'm curious if your handguard has an extended rear lip that makes up for gap seen between the front band and the stock? Trying to figure out if the stock has the band spring hole drilled a bit off toward the front? Very few of mine fit exactly right, and the gap at front is usually between the band and handguard, rather than the stock. Very nice Carbine, and yes you did good! :thup: - Bob
Sorry Bob,Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
I have been out of pocket all weekend. I'm not really sure what you are looking for but I took more pics. I will post them tomorrow morning. I can't figure out how to post images from my iPad. I can post when I get to work in the morning. Once again, sorry.
Thanks,
Jason.
No hurry, it can wait - just curious. I thought about showing a couple of your older pictures with some "arrows" added, but this might be an easier way to explain my question: If you loosen up your front band screw, can you then slide your handguard back until the wood comes in contact with the recevier lip? It seems like you could, but then there might be very little of the wood at the front still under the band, unless the band were slid back until it came in contact with the stock. Of course then, the band would no longer be engaged properly with the lug on the band spring. See what I mean? I know they don't all fit quite the same, and maybe aftermarket wood fits up a little different. Thanks! - Bob
Here are the pictures that I took. I hope this helps. It's driving me nuts that the weather was pretty this weekend, but I was busy, and now we are headed back into that vicious cycle of clear and cold, or warm and wet....neither good for range time. I'll post pics of groups when I get a chance. Meanwhile, I'll cast and load. My bullet mold needs lead in it. If anyone needs anymore pics to look at something about this rifle, please let me know and I'll be glad to help. Thanks to all who have asked questions and made comments. I know I did good for sure now. Maybe I'll let the wifey shoot this one soon. She might like it and want another?????:wave:
Nice!