No5 Mk1 from Old Western Scrounger

Good afternoon, my fine fellows!

I have just recently, within the past week, obtained from Old Western Scrounger one of their last '#5 Jungle Carbine Grade 2 Rifle' stock. As of this writing there are 5 left. I paid a little over $300.00 for it, shipped, and by the description I was expecting a real project rifle. perhaps a few parts needing replacement, definite carpentry required, possibly a whole new barrel.

Once I got the old girl home from my local FFL dealer, I was AMAZED. I had given it a cursory inspection, and was delighted to see that little to no carpentry was needed, the stock was in decent shape, a bit beaten, a bit worn, a few chips missing, but overall in good shape, the draws looked almost new, to my untrained eye. I proceeded to disassemble the rifle, placing all the metal bits save the barreled receiver, flash-hider and front sight blade, into a bath of denatured alcohol, to dissolve the cosmoline.

While the bits were soaking, I took a crack at the barreled receiver, scrubbing it as clean as possible, uncovering the faint, barely legible markings on the receiver to come out a touch more than the were before, reading, in part; No5Mk1 ROF (F) ???? 6/45 N????. On the wrist I found an interesting mark, wither P M P, F M F, or a variation of those along the left wrist of the stock cup, below the N2XXX serial number. Then I took a good hour with my Hoppes #9 and three different bore brushes, 75 patches and a good long jag, and lo, one cannot look down the barrel without being blinded! The rifling is well defined, very apparent, and very crisp.

Taking the wood, I used some degreasing dishsoap, a scrub brush and gently worked over the stock, pulling out some of the cosmline. Scrubbing the bits and bobs in the denatured alcohol was a breeze, removing all traces of the cosmoline. during the reassembly of the barreled action, everything fit together nice and tight, and the trigger pull feels lighter than my well used No4Mk1/2. The bolt is from a different No5, with an ACXXXX serial. The only piece to not survive the disassembly is the poor rubber recoil pad, which tore along the upper and lower edges despite an application of oil to ease it out of the plate.

All in all, this rifle is a non-matching mutt of a rifle, beautiful in every way, the bolt flies open eagerly, the bore looks to be used, but with alot of life left in her.

Now, my friends, to the tricky bit!
The flash-hider is stamped M47C.
The reciever wrist is stamped N2XXX.
The bolt is stamped ACXXXX.
The FMF/PMP/PMF/FMP mark on the wrist.

I am assuming (evil and wrong, I know!) that during it's life, she got an armorers or factory repair for a damaged flash-hider, hence the Shirley markings. The bolt was a bin-grab. But I cannot find anything on the wrist stamping! Can any of you, most knowledgeable elders, help?

Unfortunately I cannot post any pictures at this time, as I am waiting for my classes to start and the rifle is at home. But I promise to post them as soon as I can!

Intellivore: Glad you got a good one, even if it's patched together from the Old Scrounger's parts bin. Apparently Gibbs got a load of excellent, good, and poor Mk5s. The poor ones, from what I surmise, where taken apart and serviceable guns reconstructed from the parts bin. Glad you got a good one. Does it have the 800 yd sight?

Before you shoot it, make sure you don't find any "DP" markings on the gun -- it means it was marked as "Drill Practice" meaning something was defective. You might want to check the Cartridge Head Space before taking it to the range. A parts bin bolt may not have the right head spacing.

You can get replacement rubber butts for about $25. I think I saw them advertised at Sparco and Numrich.

The M-47 (that's not a date) marking on the Flash hider is the BSA (Birmingham Small Arms, Shirley) manufacturer's identification. Both my Fazakerley and BSA Jungle Carbines have the M-47 marking on their flash hiders. (It doesn't mean a Factory Repair was done to the flash hider.)

Yours is a Royal Ordinance Factory Fazakerley, Lancashire: (ROF) F
About 250,000 were produced -- 2/3rds the production at Fazakerley the other 1/3rd BSA Shirley.
The Serial Number is NXXX, which would be consistent with a 8/45 manufacturer.
The bolt stamped ACXXXX is from a Fazakerley Mk5 produced between Sept-Dec 1947

FMP means it was used by the Federation of Malaysian Police -- makes an interesting story.

I bought the last Grade 1 Jungle Carbine the Old Scrounger had in stock in November and was delighted. A great buy at $500. It far exceeded my expectations, matching receiver/bolt #s, almost unblemished furniture, bright barrel, and good butt plate.

If Cheaper Than Dirt has any surplus 303 HXP ammo left, buy some -- it's a good deal.

Good luck with the Restoration

Seasprinter:
I got what looks to be a darned good one! With the minor exception of some small pitting on the barrel exterior, she's in tip-top shape!
There are no stampings for Drill Purpose, and unfortunately I have no headspace gauges as yet for it. It will chamber factory ammo, but not oncefired from my No4. Since my No4 closed only on the GO gauge, i think it might be fine. But, better safe than sorry.
Ive ordered the replacement recoil pad from Liberty Tree Collectors, and have started to save up for a Cat-Technik/DAI Management no-tap mount. Looks close enough to the No32 mount to fool the uninitiated, but wont ruin the receiver. That in mind, I installed the MkII Flip sight, and have the 2-800 yd vernier set aside in my parts box.
I mistakenly ordered No4 Mk1 wood for my No4 Mk1/2, so i have a half done replacement if the forestock needs it in the future. I'm going to carve out some ironwood blocks to fit on the draws if need be.
So at one point my carbine was property of the Malaysian Gov't? That is an interesting story, indeed!
Sadly CTD wont ship way up north to Alaska. But i have the means and meager ability to reload, and there is a way to get the Greek stuff occasionally here.
I plan on stripping the wood, refinishing it, and coating it in a matte polyurethane to weatherproof the wood, and bedding it, to DCRA or better spec, and giving the fading receiver markings a slight and careful facelift.
If she's a Fazakerley, she's a sister to my 1943 No4, and that pleases me greatly! Having both and restoring both of them to issue spec, then improving their accuracy for my children to enjoy will time well spent.

Side note for my No4, on the left side of the charging bridge, there is what appears to be a circular weld. My new No5 has a similar slight discoloration in the same spot. Any clue what that might be?

Thanks for the info, its a great thing to be able to ask the knowledgeable about things, and be able to pass that knowledge on!

Intellivore, good luck with the project. Try to have a friend in the lower 48 order and reship that Greek Surplus ammo to you -- it's very high quality Boxer primed, so it's reloadable.
For finishing the stock, you might find the following link useful: Dropbox - Laws Principles of Enfield Restoration V1.1.pdf
Good luck

All hail the seaspriter!!!!!

You ought to leave all that grease between the rifle body and barrel and the woodwork. It;'s there for a GOOD reason, especially up where you are based! Now that you've taken all the gunbge out of the woodwork you ought to set about it with BLO. And plenty of it in my limited experience.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

leave all that grease between the rifle body and barrel and the woodwork

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Hi Peter,
You've mentioned the XG 279 Grease in other posts. The US its equivalent was produced 50 years ago as "Rifle Grease," but it seems hard to find. What would you recommend as a common replacement? Should we put the grease any other places ?

I'm also a car restorer -- would any other common greases meet standard? (lithium? ball-bearing? marine? gear? etc). Brownells carries a Lubriplate product that seems like a good alternative: http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleanin...-prod6525.aspx What's your expert opinion?

Does the grease help curb the wandering zero (you've commented on this before, but I don't recall if grease helped).

And thanks to all the "league of experts" on the Milsurps website that have contributed so much to my knowledge about Enfields and other old military weapons. Your commitment and willingness to share is extraordinary.

Robert

Intellivore -- I think you may have struck on a great place to use a Grade 2 Jungle Carbine -- as a Brush Gun in Alaska. I'd never take my high grade JCs hunting (just target shooting), but yours is perfect since the dinging and banging has already been done to the gun by the Malaysian Police. Go hunting with a buddy and have him take the No.4 for long range shooting.

And if you are in Grizzly Bear country or are facing an attack by Wild Boars, you can mount a reproduction bayonet to fend off the angry beasts. Of course, a fur-lined Tommy Helmet would make a great addition to let all the wild animals know you've "Gone Brit!" Think of the stories you could tell your grandchildren! ....a global gun that's gone from the "Jungles of Malaysia to the Highlands of Alaska." (A story like this just might increase the value of the gun; you can make it a legendary historic weapon.)

Just don't wander into Canada to complete the "Commonwealth Experience" -- they don't like Americans with guns -- reminds them of the Americans burning York in 1813, the WhoopUp Whiskey Forts of the 1870s, and the Klondike Gold Rush -- the RCMP has lingering memories :)

In other words, have some fun with the gun.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

they don't like Americans with guns

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Doesn't bother me one bit...it's customs that has a phobia...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Doesn't bother me one bit...it's customs that has a phobia...

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So true. I cross the border 10-20 times a year and know how tough it can be. Imagine if I wanted to repatriate my 1942 Long Branch to its native land! Customs & Immigration would not see the honour in such a subversive act; CSIS might confuse me with a terrorist; I'd feel like a German at Vimy Ridge.

I think someone out there in forumland found the commercial equivalent of grease XG 297. Maybe he can come in with the answer POL (Petrol, oils and lubricants) was a specialised field in the REME but not one of mine although I did spend a few days on an associated course at Castrol in Swindon. XG340 is good old graphite and I learned there that graphite grease was not the same as graphited grease. No, I never understood it either!

As someone who's learned 'in theatre' the importance of grease between the wood and steel and the effects of not having it does, I look on eyes agog when people spend ages getting rid of it. It's there for a good reason. Not just a GOOD reason but a xxxxxxg good reason I say!

Well, Most Knowledgeable Elders, there looks to be a bad pit, the depth of a ballpoint tip or so, in the right side of the barrel. Being the only one of its kind, I'm relieved, but will be taking it to a 'smith I know for evaluation. In the event that it's deemed irreparable, unsafe, etc., what should I do for a replacement? I can't find anywhere with those hen's teeth No5 barrels. Should I just fill it with TIG, chop a No4 tube and re-barrel it? If I do that, it eould be taken in to a barrel maker and the original flutes cloned onto the replacement.

Seaspriter, I am going to be documenting all the things I'll be doing to the rifles and bagging the papers in the buttstock or folding them into de-greased oiles for each rifle.

Are you talking a thin coating of grease on the metal, the wood, or both, Captain? I got her as a hunting and target rifle, to put my father's No4, a 1970's sporterized job that just stripped her of her wood, thank Galena!, on the wall after resroring her. I'd still shoot it, but the No5 would be my moose-burger-getter, an Ishapore would come as backup.

A local manhood rite-of-passage, oddly enough, involved annoying a Griz to the pont it wanted to tear you limb from limb and killing it in a manner not to dissimilar to setting a spear against a charge.

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Originally Posted by intellivore

Well, Most Knowledgeable Elders, there looks to be a bad pit, the depth of a ballpoint tip or so, in the right side of the barrel. Being the only one of its kind, I'm relieved, but will be taking it to a 'smith I know for evaluation. In the event that it's deemed irreparable, unsafe, etc., what should I do for a replacement? I can't find anywhere with those hen's teeth No5 barrels. Should I just fill it with TIG, chop a No4 tube and re-barrel it? If I do that, it could be taken in to a barrel maker and the original flutes cloned onto the replacement.

A local manhood rite-of-passage, oddly enough, involved annoying a Griz to the pont it wanted to tear you limb from limb and killing it in a manner not to dissimilar to setting a spear against a charge.

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Captain Laidler will give you the best advice on repairing barrels -- he's a senior British Armourer who knows more about Enfield barrels than a thousand of us amateurs. You probably won't find a No.5 barrel, unless the Old Scrounger has one left over. If you try to clone a barrel with the special Knox forms, you are wasting your money on something that will never be worth the investment. Buy a good No.5 instead.

Then take the barrel off the sporterized No.4 (if yours is like most, it probably had about 2 inches clipped off the muzzle where the bayonet studs are), cut it to carbine length, put a repro flash hider on it, and put it on the No.5 receiver. Then get a full sized barrel for the No.4, which you can now restore with full fore end and handguards.

Glad you had the right of passage with a Grizzly. Mount the bayonets and think of Errol Flynn in the Charge of the Light Brigade. And if you can't bring down the Griz with a bullet, you've still got a chance with the "spear." How about the big elk in rutting season -- they've been known to charge a human nosing in on their love making, imagining we might enjoy the act as much as they :)

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Originally Posted by intellivore

A local manhood rite-of-passage, oddly enough, involved annoying a Griz to the pont it wanted to tear you limb from limb and killing it in a manner not to dissimilar to setting a spear against a charge.

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Uh hu, that right there might have something to do with why there's more women than men in Alaska.:D

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

As someone who's learned 'in theatre' the importance of grease between the wood and steel and the effects of not having it does, I look on eyes agog when people spend ages getting rid of it. It's there for a good reason. Not just a GOOD reason but a xxxxxxg good reason I say!

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Captain, I'm humbled again after realizing, as a car and boat guy, that I know far more about a greasing a car (grease gun and U-joints, grease cups), and preventing seacocks from seizing in my boat than greasing guns. After seeing Brownell's video on greasing an M-1 (which I have), I now realize I've been using oil where I should have been using grease.
see: http://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn/...aspx?lid=16381
Ignorant again! (Lack of grease probably explains one reason why my M-1 Carbine's action is so noisy, while not worn.)

Consulting the 1931 Enfield Instructions for Armourer's (page 6), there is this reference:

3. To prevent water soaking into the stock, and at the same time to give the latter a polished
appearance, it should be well rubbed with oil. French polish or varnish is on no account to be used.
Red mineral jelly should be applied between stock, handguards, barrel and body as a protection
against rust. At stations abroad, a mixture of two parts mineral jelly to one of beeswax will be
employed.

Pardon my ignorance, but perhaps the experts could answer a couple of questions:

First: Is Red Mineral Jelly in the UK what we call Vaseline in the US?
Did XG 297 become the later replacement for Red Mineral Jelly or are they essentially the same thing?

Second: Is Mineral Jelly (or XG 297) used on all interfaces between metal & wood?

Third: How do I know where to use rifle grease and where to use gun oil?
Is it correct to assume that large surface interfaces (like bolt action or sears) use grease and smaller points of contact, like pivots, use oil?
Is it correct to assume that rifle grease and gun oil are used only for interfaces between metal and metal?

( I know never to put Linseed Oil on moving parts unless one wants to gum up the works) Please enlighten me -- I've never run across these issues other than "put gun oil over everything metal" -- which is now obviously not the right thing.

Many Thanks
Robert

My No4 only had her wood mutilated, chopped into a short forestock, to just behind the middle barrel band, all handguards removed and the ears removed from the front sight. Bubba didn't have a chance to finish it off. I had it hanging on my wall, spike bayonet proudly mounted, stock chopped, for many years.

If I find a sporterized No4, I will try to snap it up, but my finances are tight. It took me months to scrimp and save enough to get the rifle and order a plethora of parts from Liberty Tree Collectors, Numrich, Sarco and Apex. Then I got told about Springfield Sporters and realized I spent too much on some of the bits and bobs! Se La Vie!

You misunderstand, I am not Alaska Native, I am Scots/Irish/Welsh/Italian/French/German/Iroquois. The family joke was at one point one of the family had ended up on a hill, tomahawk in one hand, rifle in the other, naked, drunk, covered in war paint. they would run down the hill, screaming a warcry, shoot one shot, drop everything and surrender! I joined up as a US Navy Corpsman to avoid that, and do something really useful. I learned of the rite of passage from my wife, herself from here, and why I am here, but from my understanding it isn't practiced any longer.

Sadly I am without the funds to get much more for a long time, the pains of being a student again... So getting a 900.00 GBP No5 from EDF is not an option, and wont be unless I get a winning lottery ticket, can finagle customs, get it imported, hide it from the wife, and put it on an altar!

The depth of a ball point tip isn't truly indicative or technical enough....... But you better believe me, some of the No5's that came through our workshops were absolutely pitted to buggery (that's an Armourers technical phrase.......) but once they'd gone through the process they were just fine. Caused by wallies taking all the grease off and not replacing it. Just slather it on thick and where it squeezes out, just wipe it off.

Generally speaking, the crunchies don't use grease. That belongs in the Armourers shops. The crunchies use oil. Oil for cleaning and oiling. Grease for preserving

Oil on the moving parts grease between the absorbent wood and the steel and remember this: Blued steel is not a rustproofing. Like the usual Enfield rifle blackening or what we used to call Browning is simply a controlled corrosion in its own right. And if corrosion takes a hold again, it WILL attack.

POL ain't my forte so all I can tell you is what I know and tell or advise others to follow

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Originally Posted by intellivore

So getting a 900.00 GBP No5 from EDF is not an option, and wont be unless I get a winning lottery ticket, can finagle customs, get it imported, hide it from the wife, and put it on an altar!

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A really good JC can still be found. I bought a sweet beauty on Gun Broker at Christmas time for $368.
Lee Enfield No. 5 Mk 1 Jungle Carbine #5 : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

This gun was arsenal refurbished in Grade 1 condition

I have a friend who hunts for good deals in old weapons, and just charges a 10% fee above cost to resell -- he just loves to buy old guns. His time is worth it. I bought a beautiful arsenal refurbished Maltby Enfield in Grade 1 condition from him for only $295 just last month.
Enfield No 4 Mk 1* (Plus) NICE! Great Hunt/Collect : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

Sometimes he just unloads one of his guns to make room for another. He's a quality guy.

The beauty about Enfields is they are, IMHO, the best "deals" anywhere. Enfields are high quality guns for about the same money you'd pay to by a used Marlin 30-30. Ever since my father bought me my first Enfield when I was 7 years old for $12 or $13 in a sports shop where he bought my baseball glove, I've been hooked on these beautiful works of art that are so filled with both history and heroism.

So I just got home and used my micrometer, mechanical pencil and some math skills, here's what i have come up with:

The biggest pit is 10 7/8 inches from the crown of the flash-hider, along the right hand side of the barrel, just a hair past the 3 o'clock if you are looking down the sights. It is 0.0885 inches, or 2.25mm in diameter, with a depth of 0.0455 inches, or 1.15mm.

Calculating the diameter of the barrel at that point, approximately 0.750 inches, minus the approximate groove diameter, 0.312 inches, gives me about 0.2190 inches of barrel thickness at that point. Subtracting the pit depth leaves me with 0.1735 inches of metal between the grooves and the deepest point of the pit.

The question now is, is that enough metal at that point in the barrel to be a safe shooter? If not, what is the process that you spoke of, Captain, that helped with the barrels all pitted to buggery? Or is the barrel completely unsafe?

Peter may over rule me on this but I don't see where an area of pitting that small and that far down from the chamber would cause any safety concerns with firing the rifle.
However I do have one Q. Did you clean the pitted area down to bare metal before taking the measurements? If not it may be deeper than first thought, and that could change things.

I scrubbed with a bronze brush, poked with a toothpick, and carefully used plastic dental picks until it was free and clear.

It will give you a lifetime of further service............... Some time ago a forumer showed a picture of a typical ex Malaya No5 barrel that was heavily pitted from top to bottom. Probably a bit worse that I would have accepted for rebuild but it was still going strong.

I had a #5 some 40 years ago that had a barrel pitted so badly, and chamber, extraction was a bit of a nightmare. It was always hard to open the bolt handle...it showed on the brass.

I had a No4 Mk1/2 like that too. Difficult to open the bolt as the chamber was so bad and the barrel was like a sewer. But it was accurate and zeroed in well. That was the one that got slightly mixed up when some of the No4T's were returned. Some dozy half asleep Arms storeman got my accurate sewer pipe mixed up with one of the No4T's going back to Ordnance so I just had to get on with my life with a No4T instead. Well......., I didn't want to drop the poor arms storeman in the xxxx did I?

Oooooooh, Captian, you lucky, lucky bastard!

Long and short, I'm making Mt. Doom out of a hobbithole? The pit isn't going to pose an issue? That makes my day a world better!

To the grease, would a small ammount of packing grease be alright?

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Originally Posted by intellivore

I'm making Mt. Doom out of a hobbithole? The pit isn't going to pose an issue? That makes my day a world better!

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Ah, Intellivore, you are one of the chosen few! The Old Scrounger is just what his name implies -- you got a parts gun that is one of the lucky ones. The Old Scrounger may or may not have had high standards for safety in selling a Grade 2 gun to you. We cannot tell from his website whether they used British Armourer's standards in selling you the gun -- perhaps they did to avoid a possible litigation. When I looked at the pictures of some of their Grade 2 No.5s, I cringed.

Fortunately, the Milsurps "league of experts" like Captain Laidler, & others have offered their expertise to help less knowledgeable folks like you and I . If you want to understand the value of having their masterful advice, I encourage you to read this thread: Combining a DP Enfield, a Shooter and a Gunsmith ended up with catastrophic failure! It's the Sad Saga of Old Joe, who bought a WWI Enfield that had been DP'd. He nearly blew his hand off, and was recovering from surgery.

The Saga had real meaning to me, because at the very time this thread was active, a friend of mine was lamenting about how he bought a '42 Long Branch Enfield from a less than honorable dealer, and paid full freight for it. When he checked the barrel, it had a big bulge in it under the upper barrel band. When I examined the gun, it was stamped DP all over the gun -- all stock pieces, barrel bands, etc. Because of the Sad Saga of Old Joe, I immediately understood DP stood for "Defective Parts", not Detroit or Dublin Police!

Had the Milsurps experts not offered their advice, I would have been a Bignorant, and advise my friend simply to counterbore the last 4 inches of the muzzle to relieve any stress on the barrel. Instead, I bought the gun from him for $150, repainted the DP stripes and stencils on the stock and fore-end, put an engraved plaque on the left side stating the gun had been "Decommissioned -- Unsafe to Shoot", and put a full, detailed explanation with barrel bulge graphics on a piece of paper and rolled it into the "butthole"(that term sounds rather crass) for posterity. Hopefully this saved someone's grandson ages hence.

As a Navy Corpsman, your job was to save lives. Safety is still the #1 priority for all old gun collectors. Shoot safe, shoot straight, and Semper Fi!
Robert (USNR)

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

You ought to leave all that grease between the rifle body and barrel and the woodwork. It;'s there for a GOOD reason, especially up where you are based! Now that you've taken all the gunbge out of the woodwork you ought to set about it with BLO. And plenty of it in my limited experience.

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Perhaps some info from the M-1 Garand/Carbine Civilian Marksmanship website (Wood Cleaning Article | Civilian Marksmanship Program) may shed some light on why the metal/wood interface should be treated with a Mineral Jelly/Vaseline substance, with a beeswax mixed in:
"Why USGI Walnut Takes On the “Springfield Arsenal Red” Color -- M1 Garand USGI wood was finished with boiled linseed oil at the beginning of manufacture and then with boiled tung oil later into the manufacturing era.......The wood over time got smoother from handling, darker from dirt and oil and grease, and redder from the effects of oxidation of the Mil-Spec lubricants and rust preventatives, oxidation of boiled linseed oil, and oxidation of boiled tung oil. Oxidizing of the various oils in the soup is where the red color comes from in walnut after several years goes by of normal USGI care and handling. The red is not a stain effect and not the color of walnut. It is the various oils oxidizing. It takes years for it to become the predominant color in the wood....The almost black color along the metalwood lines of firearms would indicate....... over time, gun oil dissolves the resins in wood and makes it mushy. For example, the compression effect of Garand receivers/trigger guards crushing the wood is in part caused by oil damage to the wood."

This site goes on to elaborate on the technical details of finishing the woodwork that I figured out by trial and error (wished I had found this info earlier -- would have saved a lot of experiment learning):

"Linseed Oil [meaning RLO] is a natural product best described as a yellowish oil extracted from the seeds of flax grown to make linen. Linseed oil does not dry well and does little to exclude moisture from wood. Tung Oil is also a natural product best described as a yellow or brownish oil extracted from the seeds of the tung tree. It is also called Chinawood oil. Tung oil does not dry well either and is only slightly better at moisture exclusion than linseed oil. Boiled Linseed Oil (BLO) is a mixture of linseed oil, a carrier or solvent, and driers. It is superior to pure linseed oil [RLO] in that it will more completely dry over time and is slightly more waterproof. BLO does not completely cure or dry and multiple coats dry even less well. Boiled Tung Oil (BTO) is a mixture of tung oil, a carrier or solvent, and driers. It is superior to pure linseed oil, pure tung oil, and boiled linseed oil in that it will more likely cure or dry over time and is slightly more waterproof. The BTO finish is slightly harder and more resistant to gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms. None of these four products is really good at excluding moisture from wood."

"As to the M1 Garand Rifle, it is believed that the original manufacturer’s finish utilized boiled linseed oil into which the stocks were dipped and then dried. Subsequently, what might be called boiled tung oil was used instead. The boiled tung oil was a mixture of real tung oil, a carrier or solvent such as mineral spirits or turpentine, and driers similar to those added to boiled linseed oil to help cure the oil."

"Minwax Tung Oil Finish is an oil and varnish blend that is much more waterproof and will dry due to added driers. It can be built up into a gloss, but that is not usually done. It is best used as an in the wood finish rather than a built up on the wood finish. Minwax Tung Oil Finish resists scratches and is more resistant to gun oils and chemicals associated with firearms. The best qualities of Minwax Tung Oil Finish allow it to be wiped on and wiped off properly prepared wood leaving an in the wood finish of a look similar to BLO, but far more stable and protective. A number of coats to clean and repair scratches can be applied without building up on the surface if rubbed in carefully and then rubbed dry. Other finish products with similar sounding names may have far more varnish and behave differently in use."

"Linseed oil [RLO], tung oil, BLO, or BTO cannot successfully be applied over ........ varnish [which] ....seals out the older natural finishes and they will not dry."

Hope this is helpful.
Robert

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

XG 279 -US its equivalent was produced 50 years ago as "Rifle Grease," but it seems hard to find. What would you recommend as a common replacement? Should we put the grease any other places ?

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Answering my own question here, some more research found this answer on the M-1 Garand website (How To Clean Your Guns )

"The conventional wisdom is:
If it rotates, oil it. If it slides, grease it."

"Generally speaking, "oil" is lighter weight, less viscous and free-flowing at room temperature, while "grease" is thicker and not a liquid at room temperature. There is no specific threshold for just what is an oil versus what is a grease, but Rem Oil definitely is a light-weight non-viscous oil. A light-weight oil like Rem Oil will very effectively penetrate between tightly fitting parts, including around pins. "

There are several choices for viscous grease. "Shooter's Choice" is popular; its thin nozzle [& hypodermic needle style thumb piston] lets you control where you apply it, making it easier to lubricate slide rails. "Hoppe's Gun Grease" is the other popular alternative."

I consulted with a lead lubrication engineer for one of the major oil companies. This is what I learned:

Grease is simply oil that is mixed with a thickener. It is about 90% oil and 10% “soap”. The thickener acts like a sponge and is not chemically bound to the oil. When something presses on the grease, the oil squeezes out to do the lubricating.

There are different kinds of thickeners. For best rust protection, the lube engineer recommends calcium sulfonate. This type of grease is used for boat trailers and other very wet applications where water resistance and rust protection is important.

Where should you use oil vs. grease? If you want the lubricant to stay put, use grease. If you want it to penetrate, use oil. You can generally go much longer without relubricating if you use grease.

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