No.1 MKIII Safety Lever.

I have a 1937 BSA No.1 MKIII and I'm curious about the style of safety lever on it? I would of expected it to of just had the usual III marked style of lever but as the pics show it ain't! I've had a bit look on the internet etc at pics of No.1 MKIII & MKIII*s but I've not come across any with this type (don't mean they're not out there though!).
The rifle is, I believe, one of the ex Italian ones so maybe it's an Italian made replacement? It has, as far as I can tell, no markings on the lever.

Anyone know?

Many thanks!

Looks like someone has broken or lost the locking bolt (and the actual safety catch from the photo) and made a truly awful effort at a replacement. Needless to say, as you'd expect, the locking bolt and safety catch are considered an important safety feature on a rifle!

The question now is who the fuxx, er......... which rascal sold you a rifle with a defective safety? Mind boggling

Cheers Peter, it's not an issue as such from a 'safety' (groan...) point of view as it's deactivated.

As for who the gonk was that done it...well I'm guessing some Italian armorer??? lol

What would the actual thumb lever be then, just an original that has been modified or was there one that looked like that? It does actually work too, well it appears to work though whether it would be 'okay' on a live rifle then maybe not??

The only way you'd know is to try it on a live rifle. It does look like it's been hand made though.

It's an odd one really? The actually thumb lever itself looks pretty well made, not something knocked up in someones shed, the rest who knows. What I do find a bit strange though is 'why'? As far as I know the rifle was one of those that were sent to Italy after the war and sat in the stores there on the whole I believe. Unless it ended up with some Italian unit based in the arse-end of nowhere then I don't imagine that a spare 'proper' safety would of been too hard to get, I'm sure the Italians would of either had spares or could canabalise another MKIII/III* rather than having to make something from scratch?

As mentioned earlier it does appear to work, in that if you cock the rifle and put the safety on then it won't dry fire and when you flick the safety off it will, so I'm presuming it would do the same ok on a live rifle, though whether it would be considered safe or not would be the question I guess?

The "main body seems to be of smaller diameter than the "normal" lever, locking.

Have you removed it to see if it has the multi-start, left-hand thread on it?

If it has, then it is even odder.

If it is "smooth" then it is possibly bogus. As far I can establish, the ONLY "locking lever" that had no thread was the rather nasty WW2 vintage "Bolt, Locking, Mk2" fitted to the No4 in dire times.

I have several of these safety levers.

They are dimensionally identical to Enfield levers, and are clearly manufactured to the same standards and finish. The finish resembles No1 components, rather than No4. They function correctly in a rifle.

Their origin is a mystery. I wondered if they had been manufactured as an "extended safety lever" for certain applications of Enfield actions - eg perhaps the smoke dischargers on AFVs, etc.

Time Bandid. All you need to know is that whoever made it, invented it, added it or did whatever else to it wasn't an Armourer in any literal meaning of the word, but a bodger with no comprehension of the inner workings of the craft - if you'll excuse the phrase! Even if the shank/shaft had the half moon rotating locking segment at the inner end............ I won't go on. Just replace it and be done with it. Just my Sunday morning grumpy 2c's worth

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

The "main body seems to be of smaller diameter than the "normal" lever, locking.

Have you removed it to see if it has the multi-start, left-hand thread on it?

If it has, then it is even odder.

If it is "smooth" then it is possibly bogus. As far I can establish, the ONLY "locking lever" that had no thread was the rather nasty WW2 vintage "Bolt, Locking, Mk2" fitted to the No4 in dire times.

---

I've taken it off to have a look and it doesn't have the thread, it's smooth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Time Bandid. All you need to know is that whoever made it, invented it, added it or did whatever else to it wasn't an Armourer in any literal meaning of the word, but a bodger with no comprehension of the inner workings of the craft - if you'll excuse the phrase! Even if the shank/shaft had the half moon rotating locking segment at the inner end............ I won't go on. Just replace it and be done with it. Just my Sunday morning grumpy 2c's worth

---

Peter, I was being a bit tongue in cheek when i mentioned above that it might of been done by an Italian Armourer, in reality I've no idea who, why, where or when it was done. As for replacing it I may well do if I can get the bits cheap enough, though part of me says just leave it as it is, it's part of its history or whatever? It must of been done at some point in its service life, be it in UK/Commonwealth service (probably not) or Italian service (more likely)?

A bit more info about the rifle, it's a 1938 BSA (not 1937 as I first put - old age, dodgy memory take yer pick!) and is a MKIII which had the cut off. it has obviously been 'worked on' at some point in its history as it's now in a MKIII* type spec as the cut off has been removed somewhere along the line, maybe the safety was 'altered' when this was done? The bolt is a mismatch with the earlier round cocking piece, the action, barrel, sights and nose cap still match and the wood is MKIII* type and relieved for the mag cut off (had it still been fitted).

Serial No. L 39402 (Body, Barrel, Sights, Nose Cap.
Serial No. O 3423 (Bolt)
Serial No. L 19765 (wood)

Would this of been made for one BSA's overseas orders (Iraq, Siam etc) which they had in the '30s or would it of been for a UK/Commonwealth contract? I guessing the latter due to the fact it ended up in Italy (can't imagine places like Iraq, Siam etc just giving the rifles away to the Italians after the war?) and there are no 'foreign' markings on it that I can see?
Anyone clued up on these who might know?

Couple more pics...

I've decided I might as well try and get the original safety set up to replace the one that's on it, not that it matters from a functioning point of view but I may as well have it looking right.

I've a couple of questions though, not being a shooter etc I'm not really up to scratch on where I get spare parts etc, I've looked at a few militaria dealers type sites that I often buy from and I can get some bits but not all of them, so do any of you have any recommendations for websites etc I can go and look at to see if I can get the bits or does anyone have any going spare? It would need to be a website in the UK as I would have to pay by cheque as I'm far too old fashioned for the likes of PayPal.

Secondly, what do I actually need? I've had a look in the SAIS book for the SMLE and it would appear I need the following bits...

1x Safety Catch Part No. BB0671
1x Locking Bolt Part No. BB0662
1x Washer Part No. BB0784
1x Spring Part No. BB0750
1x Screw Part No. BB0740

Does that sound about right? I've not missed anything have I?

Out of that lot I've found BB0671 & BB0662 and I presume my original screw is BB0740 and I can just reuse that. So I'm struggling with finding BB0784 & BB0750 if anyone knows where I can find them or has any?

Many thanks.

I've just spotted another one of these safety set ups. It's not identical, this one still uses the original bits and pieces but the spring part has been replaced with one the same as fitted to mine. On the other forum someone has mentioned that this type of spring is a one that was used in WW2.
I had another look in the parts book and it looks like rifles made after 1943 used these later parts? The spring (part no. BB7931) is a MK II and is described as plain flat type, which sounds about right?

Another No.1 MKIII safety... (Mods, not sure if it's ok to link to another forum, please remove if not. Thanks).

I've managed to get the bits for mine now, except for the Washer (BB0784) and the Dumb Bell Spring (BB0750), I guess I could reuse the 'flat' spring but still need to get a washer. if anyone knows anywhere in the UK I might find one (or anyone has one here) shout out!! Many Thanks!

Fultons will be knee deep in them. You mark my words..........

I have one of those oddball safety levers as well. It came in a parts lot I bought years ago.Attachment 60860Attachment 60861Attachment 60862

Another one.

What did I buy?

Looks like there is one or two out there then?

I have seen them on a few rifles for sale at gun shows over the years and have even noticed one now and then on rifles for sale on the popular gun auction sites. Would be interesting to know where the heck they came from.

From the make-up of the 'thing', looking at Spikes good pictures, it would seem like some nation required the safety of the rifle dumbed down so as to EXCLUDE the operation of the bolt. In other words, exclude the safety catch so that only the half-moon of the locking bolt operated against the cocking piece.

Not such a dumb idea I suppose........ After all, you can operate the action of the L1A1 until the cows come home but if the change lever is at safe, it ain't going to fire.

But we're going around the houses again and again because it ain't correct and to correct is is cheap and simple

Note also that, unlike a "real" SMLE lever, this is is pinned together a la the No4 pattern.

The manufacture of the original No1 Mk3 etc. type was a triumph of engineering perversity: forming an eight-start thread up to a shoulder on such a small component. Then again it is VERY hard to break one!

Engaged the old brain and dived into the "digital crypt".

It appears that this "dodgy" safety is the "Safety, Expedient", a notorious "lash-up" to get rifles in the hands of troops. Allegedly supposed to be withdrawn and destroyed as "proper" ones became available. (See my previous comment about the "engineering" involved in cutting the 8-start thread on a "proper Bolt, Locking).

I was under the impression that these were produced for the No.4, hence the grooves for the No.4 style spring on the exterior, as opposed to the little holes on the reverse side that engage the hard steel pins fitted to a SMLE receiver.

Any other suggestions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

Engaged the old brain and dived into the "digital crypt".

It appears that this "dodgy" safety is the "Safety, Expedient", a notorious "lash-up" to get rifles in the hands of troops. Allegedly supposed to be withdrawn and destroyed as "proper" ones became available. (See my previous comment about the "engineering" involved in cutting the 8-start thread on a "proper Bolt, Locking).

I was under the impression that these were produced for the No.4, hence the grooves for the No.4 style spring on the exterior, as opposed to the little holes on the reverse side that engage the hard steel pins fitted to a SMLE receiver.

Any other suggestions?

---

These safeties seem far too well made and finished to be any sort of expedient. In any case, where has there ever been a mention of shortages of safeties in Enfield rifle production? If it was an expedient, why bother creating an extended lever of such unique shape?


For now I'll repeat my idea that they might be intended for some non-rifle use of a No1 receiver where an extended safety lever might be useful - e.g perhaps the smoke launchers on the turret of an AFV.

Well..............

Back in 2010, there was a discussion along similar lines:

Some Enfield parts you don't see every day...

Also discussed: Safeties for Smoke dischargers.

I was gonna take the 'dodgy' safety of my SMLE and replace it with the proper one but since it's not a shooter I think I may as well just leave it on - part of its history and all that crap!