Lee Enfield at War

As you have liked the pictures of the topic Bren at War , I'll start posting here, lee enfield rifle pics.

Winston Churchill inspects the new Lee-Enfield No. 4 rifle with spike bayonet during a visit to 53rd Division in Kent, 20 November 1942.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-28.jpg

Cecil Beaton portrait of an Indian Tochi Scout firing his Lee Enfield rifle on the North West frontier of India, circa 1944.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-29.jpg

A paratrooper of the 16th Airborne Division (Territorial Army) takes aim with his Lee Enfield rifle during exercise King's Joker at the Stanford Parachute Training Area.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-30.jpg

THE EMPLOYMENT OF WOMEN IN BRITAIN, 1914-1918
A female worker operating a "fine" boring machine, boring out the barrel of a short Lee Enfield rifle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-31.jpg

BRITISH ARMY OPERATIONS AGAINST THE MAU MAU IN KENYA, 1952 - 1956
Soldier of the King's African Rifles takes aim with his Lee-Enfield Rifle No.5 Mk.I, from a concealed position during a patrol in the forest.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-32.jpg

Regards

A soldier of 1st Royal Ulster Rifles, 1st Airborne Division, firing a Lee-Enfield No. 4 rifle with telescopic sight, 29 August 1942.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-33.jpg

A captured German Mauser 1918 T-Gewehr anti-tank rifle compared with a British Lee-Enfield rifle. Neulette, 30 August 1918

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-34.jpg

Sgt James S Dickinson, a section leader with No. 9 Commando at Anzio, equipped for a patrol with his a Lee Enfield No.4 Mk I rifle and fixed bayonet, 5 March 1944.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-35.jpg

A sergeant instructor with the Royal Scots Fusiliers shows a recruit how to hold the SMLE Mk III Lee-Enfield rifle correctly in the prone firing position, 31 August 1942.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-36.jpg

THE SECOND BOER WAR, 1899-1902
Soldier of one of the Scottish mounted regiments resting in their camp. He is probably a serviceman of the Lothians and Berwickshire Yeomanry. Note Lee Enfield rifles use instead of poles to keep the tent up.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-37.jpg

Nice!

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for sharing these.

I went and had a look at the Bren at War series, good stuff there as well. I see in one picture a soldier with his SMLE up to his LEFT shoulder - looks like it might have happened after all.
(I can recall a thread, not sure where, in which this topic was discussed; the consensus seemed to be that it was impossible and contrary to training.)

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Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart

I went and had a look at the Bren at War series, good stuff there as well. I see in one picture a soldier with his SMLE up to his LEFT shoulder - looks like it might have happened after all.
(I can recall a thread, not sure where, in which this topic was discussed; the consensus seemed to be that it was impossible and contrary to training.)

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This?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2/large-10.jpg

Attachment 60465

Picture #2, photos #1 and #4 in it are trials rifles as you can see the cut off's.

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Originally Posted by rayg

Picture #2, photos #1 and #4 in it are trials rifles as you can see the cut off's.

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#4 looks like a No1 Mk3 to me.

Shooting from the left shoulder was a perfectly acceptable alternative for those cack-handed shooters. Alas, not such a bag of fun with the L85 rifle!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Shooting from the left shoulder was a perfectly acceptable alternative for those cack-handed shooters. Alas, not such a bag of fun with the L85 rifle!

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Not much fun with an SLR, either.

Saw one clip on youtube, where a bloke was using a 7.62 x 39 Bren, from the left shoulder - would have thought it was awkward to use the sights

Didn't work with the sten but the owen was ok as long as you just pointed. :D
Being ambidextrous has its advantages. :thup:

Wow! A lefty Enfield and a lefty Mauser in the same pic. What I'd give for one of those. Wait . . . , what?
Fixed it for you.:D

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...original-1.jpg

I see also the Mauser propped up on a small ledge against the wall but they must have been using the Enfield's anti-gravity properties as well.


..

Using the SLR/L1A1 left handed was perfectly acceptable and no problems. Or am I missing something? There was a shooting competition where you HAD to fire a series of shots around cover, alien to your usual way

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Using the SLR/L1A1 left handed was perfectly acceptable and no problems. Or am I missing something? ...

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Only that reaching the cocking handle with the right hand was a bit awkward. Changing magazines with the right hand was a bit of work too.

Been there and done that --- a lot.

But shooting cack handed was still acceptable practice

Some one beat me to it with the left-handed T-Gewehr.

I wonder how/why do many T-Gewehrs have post their bipods.

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Originally Posted by Luis Bren

THE SECOND BOER WAR, 1899-1902
Soldier of one of the Scottish mounted regiments resting in their camp. He is probably a serviceman of the Lothians and Berwickshire Yeomanry. Note Lee Enfield rifles use instead of poles to keep the tent up.

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Those Scots are probably using their bayonets as tent pegs too!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3_NA4614-1.jpg
British troops with an American paratrooper in Avola, Sicily 11 July 1943

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...20wading-1.jpg
51st Highland Forces Seaforth Highlanders in deep water Sicily 1943

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3_NA5335-1.jpg
British troops scramble over rubble in a devastated street in Catania, 5 August 1943

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...egalbuto-1.jpg
Canadians in Sicily

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...icily_d3-1.jpg
Private Joe Pakokis of The Loyal Edmonton Regiment standing at the grave of an Italian soldier near Pachino, Italy, 11 July 1943. Capt. Frank Royal / Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-138374.

I see the IWM has a photo containing not just the ultra-rare T-Gewehr in its left-handed variant, but a similarly configured No1.

The photo of the RUR sniper clearly shows a Trials 4T. The cut off & the waisted foresight protector are readily visible. There also appears to be a muzzle swivel fitted to the rifle.

Interesting point about the pic top of the last set. Two UK and one US troop...the young man with his hands on the muzzle has no piling swivel and the protective wood on each side of the rear sight are gone. I always thought that happened after the war when they were sporterized . Apparently that wood wasn't as important as originally intended. We had a posting a while back showing some of these things being authorized and this is the picture proof...neat.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

young man with his hands on the muzzle has no piling swivel and the protective wood on each side of the rear sight are gone.

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Good observation Jim. In fact, none of the detail pics of the Sicily invasion show piling swivels on either the No.1 or No.4 Enfields, including the Canadian troops (who I'm assuming might be carrying Long Branches). Wonder how they stacked the guns in field?

Canadians have never stacked arms as far as I know. I've been involved in the army since I was 17 and that's more than 40 years ago. The books never showed any such drill movement or instruction. I've looked at old books also... The #4s don't have those and the #1s had it deleted from production in some cases. It's non essential. The small wood fingers are a neat point though. Never noticed that before.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

the #1s had it deleted from production in some cases. It's non essential

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Just bought a 1918 Lithgow that had an Arsenal Repair/Return to Stores for FTR upgrade in 2/46. The 1946 nose cap has an untapped stud where the stacking swivel would have been in the 1918 model. This supports your observation and that the Aussies had also abandoned the stacking swivel.

Thanks for your insights and observations.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Using the SLR/L1A1 left handed was perfectly acceptable and no problems. Or am I missing something? There was a shooting competition where you HAD to fire a series of shots around cover, alien to your usual way

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If you are missing something Peter, then so am I. Shooting from the left shoulder was a common technique in FIBUA, for example, for firing around cover.

Load and cock in the normal fashion but shoot off the left shoulder.

It just struck me that FIBUA is probably not used any more; fighting being such a nasty non-PC word. They probably call it: "not being very nice in an urban environment" these days.

That's how I taught my guys FN C1 also. All drills done right handed but then change to the left before the selector changed. We did allow left handed shooting though...

FIBUA or Fighting In A Built-Up Area. There is another set of words used with the initials but not in the Officers mess.........! FIBUA. The most knackering form of physical exercise that can be undertaken - bar nothing. The 1st minute is knackering, the 2nd minute is mind numbing, the 3rd minute you're dead on your feet and the next 5 minutes you don't know whether you are punched., bored or countersunk............

Added later. Re Beerie, thread 25! FIBUA has now probably changed to DaWNISH in the PC army. For Dealing With Naughtiness In Social Housing*. The broken windows and door frames add a touch of realism

* someone will need to explain this concept to befuddled non English looking on. But in short: Where you give someone homeless/without a home a house. So they can smash it up

We called it houseclearing in the beginning...

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

Some one beat me to it with the left-handed T-Gewehr.

I wonder how/why do many T-Gewehrs have post their bipods.

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At 36lbs they were heavy enough already and if you were a Jerry trying to fire one and survive, you would rest it on the parapet and get as low as possible, for which a bipod was not convenient at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rayg

Picture #2, photos #1 and #4 in it are trials rifles as you can see the cut off's.

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Oops, sorry #4 is a No1 Mk3. I guess I only noticed/focused on the cutoff, sorry, Ray

Interesting point, a fellow on CGN has a pistol with Avola, Sicily, July 11, 1943 carved under one of its grips. That photo kind of proves its timeline.

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

... Load and cock in the normal fashion but shoot off the left shoulder. ...

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Then there are those of us, self included, who are naturally molly-dookers. For us, almost the entire mechanical world is built the wrong way round. For us, it was reach over the top with the right hand to cock and reach under with the right hand to load, or - dare I say it - use the left hand to load and cock and be told off because, 'It isn't "tactical" to do wrong way round'.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Canadians have never stacked arms as far as I know. I've been involved in the army since I was 17 and that's more than 40 years ago. The books never showed any such drill movement or instruction. I've looked at old books also... The #4s don't have those and the #1s had it deleted from production in some cases. It's non essential. The small wood fingers are a neat point though. Never noticed that before.

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This is captioned as Canadians in London during WW2, plenty of Piling swivels here.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...anadians-1.jpg

Sure there are. I said it had been deleted in SOME cases. SA production and IS for a couple I think. Meaning WW2 production. I'll bet those rifles are much earlier production. My dad carried one matter of fact in Italy. I didn't say they were eliminated. Read the post.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Sure there are. I said it had been deleted in SOME cases. SA production and IS for a couple I think. Meaning WW2 production. I'll bet those rifles are much earlier production. My dad carried one matter of fact in Italy. I didn't say they were eliminated. Read the post.

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Untwist them my friend, was not implying anything other than Canadians had them fitted, your post could be read to mean they did not.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

The #4s don't have those and the #1s had it deleted from production in some cases.

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How would you read it that way?

Untwist what?

Interesting selection of head-gear as well!

What is the helmet "badge" that looks vaguely like the old British Railways Logo? ( Back before the "bent hashtag" symbol and the Blue and "Off-White" livery.)

The shoulder flash appears to be the right shading to be a red flash. Doing a little research, 1st Canadian Div wore a red triangle. The 48th Highlanders had a falcon head on their capbadge and the Hastings and Prince Edward Regt. had a stag head on their capbadge. It's too low resolution to tell which it may be. Both battalions were part of 1 Can's 1st Brigade.

There used to be a really good reference website for WWI and WWII Canadian Army history, but it seems to have vanished. 'Wiki' is decent though - 1st Canadian Division - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it's the 48th, as they used the collar badge as the helmet badge. The shoulder titles look right too...

Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Paul S.

... Doing a little research, 1st Canadian Div wore a red triangle. ...

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That should read 'red rectangle'.

The 48th apparently was nicknamed 'the glamour boys' shortly after their arrival in England. The story was that they were to be paraded before some dignitary and needed to have new puttees issued. The only ones available in the needed quantity were blue. So, the battalion was issued and wore blue puttees for the dog and pony show, earned a nickname and it stuck.

You'd think the army could come up with something better than that; "the bluestockings" for example!

The cloth patches were created in the Canadian Corps in WWI to enable instantaneous recognition from as great a distance as possible, rather than having to approach a man and read what was on his shoulder titles. A series of squares, circles or triangles were combined to form a unique emblem for each formation. The idea was perpetuated in WWII and apparently imitated by other armies.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pid151P0-1.jpg

Lance Corporal Charles Jeffrey, Private George McCulloch and Sergeant John Spowart of the Camerons who all won medals for bravery at El Alamein, 26 December 1942.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...40489634-1.jpg

An infantry section on patrol near El Alamein, 17 July 1942.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...05237272-1.jpg

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A 15-cwt truck passes a sentry as it leaves Fort Weygand at Palmyra, Syria, 12 July 1941
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12442518-1.jpg

Attachment 60586

My grandfather, T.W. Savory, center, 4th Railway Pioneer Regiment, during the Boer War.

American Labour representatives looking at a British soldier presenting his Lee Enfield rifle. Cassel Hill, 11 May 1918. Note two wound stripes on his left sleeve.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/large-1.jpg

A front line trench held by the 1/6th Battalion, South Staffordshire Regiment near Armentieres in March 1915. Note the old Long Lee Enfield No1 Mk.I Rifles with which the battalion was still equipped.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/large-2.jpg

Snap shooting instruction with a Short Magazine Lee Enfield rifle at the British Army School of Musketry in Hythe, Kent, on 21 January 1915.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/large-3.jpg

British troops stacking salvaged Lee Enfield rifles at Aveluy, September 1916. These would be sent back to base, stripped and cleaned and reissued.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/large-4.jpg

ROYAL AIR FORCE: THE AIR TRAINING CORPS, 1941-1945.
Cadets of No 228 (Bromley) Squadron ATC receive instruction in firing the .303 Lee-Enfield rifle on the firing range at RAF Biggin Hill, Kent.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...03/large-5.jpg

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Originally Posted by Luis Bren

salvaged Lee Enfield rifles at Aveluy, September 1916. These would be sent back to base, stripped and cleaned and reissued.

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If you look closely at the stack of guns in the centre-left foreground, these look like shattered remnants of weapons. It would be reasonable to guess these were the guns of dead soldiers who met a machine gun bullet or mortar on No-Mans-Land.

Recall the discussion of the cut down "pistol" guns that were used by "tunnel rats" in a thread in January. I'll bet this is how the tunnel pistols came to be -- salvaged from a blown up weapon -- never making it back to an armoury.

As I recall, that picture appears in Chris McCarthy's book The Somme: The Day By Day Account.

Also of note in the picture is the stack of Gewehr 1898 Mausers on the extreme left front.

You may also note in Pic #14 that the disc is missing from the 2nd tommies rifle butt guess you have to eliminate as much as you can in the way of things that will catch the light I like that pic as it shows the different equipment loads carried. I realize in a combat zone the GI would dump most of the unessential kit when the lead started flying.

There is a similar picture to that showing the salvaged rifles, taken in Europe after the 2nd War. It was from a RAOC Corps Journal. The rifles, Stens (Brens went to Enfield) were put into large crates, washed down and shipped to Fazakerley where they were totally stripped and rebuilt and formed the bulk of the post war FTR programme into the 50's

Looks like someone forgot to pack the ear defenders for the Cadets shooting at Biggin Hill small bore range. Naughty......... However did we manage before?

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Originally Posted by Luis Bren

British troops stacking salvaged Lee Enfield rifles at Aveluy, September 1916. These would be sent back to base, stripped and cleaned and reissued.

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This is the first photograph I have seen which shows just how many rifles were recovered from the battlefield after a battle. It really puts into perspective the number of soldiers who were killed or wounded on the battlefield. There must be thousands of rifles there.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

If you look closely at the stack of guns in the centre-left foreground,

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At the almost bottom left corner of the pic is what appears to be the front end of a '98 Mauser rifle...wonder if the left of that photo was enemy ordnance?

Posed photograph of infantry sheltering from 'enemy shellfire' beside a knocked-out German PzKpfw III tank, 2 November 1942.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...97964461-1.jpg

Those chaps at Hythe are actually using an eye disc - a training aid for aiming. Their use was banned some time in the 50s. Too many accidents I believe.

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

using an eye disc

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We used the aiming disc still when I took my release in 08. The C79 optic precluded it's use but when we had iron sights still, we still used it. We used it through the FN's of course.

I have a funny feeling that while the eye discs might have been banned, their use was VERY strictly controlled. Obviously no live ammo was to be brought into the classroom (don't laugh, it happened many times. And if you're not loking through the eye disc it's pretty serious, and if you ARE looking through one, it's even more, er........, .....'character forming'). But pouches had to be searched manually for empty cases or drill rounds.

The one classic case, a fatally classic case was at the Royal Fusiliers Depot where they had been using drill rounds to load and fire. The recruit had finished his magazine of 5 or 10 drill rounds and the instructor was correcting his aim picture and told him to load again. As he'd used his drill rounds up, the instructor felt in his own pouches or pocket and tossed him several more drill rounds in order to continue the lesson/practice.

The classroom exploded as the recruit blew the instructors head off! He'd given him some drill and live ammo.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

At the almost bottom left corner of the pic is what appears to be the front end of a '98 Mauser rifle...wonder if the left of that photo was enemy ordnance?

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See comment #48, page 5 above.

IIRC first the use of drill rounds with eye disc was banned followed by the use of eye discs at all.

We only used drill rounds for practice loading and drills. Never used them with eye discs. We even discontinued their use on the range for flinch drills. Yes, we searched pouches and proved ammo to be drill as per Warminster standard...

Photo "captioned as Canadians in London during WW2, plenty of Piling swivels here." I would say the soldiers are definitely the Four Dozen Highlanders ... (48th Highlanders ;-) who were with 1 Canadian Division in UK 1939-1943, then Sicily, Italy and Holland. Early in the war, there were hand painted cap badges on the sides of helmets and then they quickly produced decals (transfers) for the helmets. Many of these were made by Gale & Polden of Aldershot.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...12358a10-1.jpg
http://www.cdnmilitarycollectors.com...nadian-helmets

Trials No. 4 Serial number A 0473, an ex-sniper, was sold by Fulton's of Bisley last year and it still has a piling swivel attached to the upper band.
F1810 ENFIELD NO4 MK1 TRIALS RIFLE .303
http://www.fultonsofbisley.com/firea...ials-rifle-303

using an eye disc
As a Yank who was trained in the military and earned a service ribbons for marksmanship, please help me understand this "ordeal" with the eyepiece. When I first saw the pic I was puzzled and confused. The first two things we were taught in Navy/Marine training was NEVER to point a gun at another human unless you intended to kill someone, and to check the magazine & chamber to be sure both were empty.

The training of a marksman started in the mind. Pointing the gun at a drill instructor was just totally the "wrong mindset." I never saw anyone point a gun at a drill sergeant or gunny instructor. If I even thought of such a thing, latrine duty for a year would have been mild punishment; running a bayonet up my butt might be a more realistic punishment -- it was a typical drill sergeant's threat. What was the intent of this seemingly bizarre training exercise?? What am I missing?

The eye disc has a tin hat tgt painted on it and a hole in the center. When you have it close to the eye you can watch the trainee as he releases the shot and observe flinch. Now we're going to go around for a bit about pointing weapons, but it was simple...we cleared the weapon before the class started and then we simply weren't afraid of having pointed at us. That simple. The whole exercise was in the training manual... As Peter pointed out things happen, but I did it lots and never even heard of an accident happening in Canada doing this practice.

There was however a grenade accident in Valcartier once...live 36 in a classroom full of cadets. My woman was one of the children in the building at the time. That was a long time back...some of you remember that...

No matter how hard one tries it is simply not possible to legislate for stupid people.

In 2007, a Thames Valley police "instructor" loaded, aimed, and fired a live round from a .44 Magnum revolver at civilian employee student in a classroom. The list of things that this moron did wrong is a long one.

His "punishment" for this incredibly stupid action was to retire on a police pension. No further action was taken against him.

His victim on the other hand, although he miraculously survived the gunshot wound, has a life sentence . Due the injuries to his bowel, kidney, lung and liver, he is unlikely to work again.

If an FAC holder had done this he/she would still be in prison.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

The eye disc has a tin hat tgt painted on it and a hole in the center. When you have it close to the eye you can watch the trainee as he releases the shot and observe flinch

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Surprised someone didn't modify a WWI Trench Periscope for this purpose and get out of the line of fire. As a veteran military officer I (and many of my fellow vets) don't like it when someone even points a finger at us because it symbolizes a pistol pointed at us. The Commonwealth gun instructors must be made of pretty tough stuff. (guess you all knew that anyway:):) )

It's all on the old fashioned concept of risk. You use the most suitable method of training 1 million men. But you kill, say ,4. By the same token some recruits will die during the ferocious Physical Training regieme. It's worth the risk.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

... By the same token some recruits will die during the ferocious Physical Training regieme. ...

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We actually had that happen. We had a 20 year old recruit die of a heart attack during physical training.

As for the bloke who tossed the recruit a few drill rounds plus a live, well, I suppose you'd call that Darwinian style natural selection! Sorry to be a bit light hearted but even the Army are now rethinking the training system in that good training is better than litigation based training

I remember talking to a Brit Army Signals Captain who was "attached" to us from the British Army in Germany back in the early 1980s.

He maintained that there was an "official scale" of "service" deaths and injuries for major exercises. In addition, there were "insurance assessors" on the ground as well. When the Divisional Commander ordered, "Turn left NOW!", and an armoured Brigade "rearranged" Herr Schmidt's farm, the "cheque-book warriors" turned up soon afterwards to "ease the pain".

Different times: in those days, whilst on those exercises, you could see off to the east, your potential, operational enemy watching the whole thing through very large optics.

Train hard, fight easy.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

How would you read it that way?

Untwist what?

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Just that the thread was on the subject of piling swivels being fitted or not, i read your reply as, the Canadians never stacked arms & had no drill for it so they removed them.
Sorry :wave::cool:?

Australians in the Jungle, note piling swivel.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ngswivel-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by 5thBatt

note piling swivel

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Older rifles had them and then the drawings later excluded them. Ishapore for instance, Australia too...we all have examples of blank swivel mounts...I can't say which year they were written out though.

In a lot of these cases, it's like L1A1 rifles with old style front sling loops and plastic furniture. It is simple obsolescent - so remains in place until it needs replacing. Then it's replaced with existing stocks until stocks are exhausted. And when stocks of the old sling loops or wood pistol grips or piling swivels are gone, they're replaced with new. Or in the case of the piling swivel, not replaced at all.

L1A1 gas cylinders were a good point. It was a B class modification but you'd still see the old obsolescent gas cylinders still on rifles for years and years

New Zealand infantry greet a Matilda tank crew after the meeting of the Tobruk garrison and relieving forces, 2 December 1941.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...37804995-1.jpg

Infantry and carriers of the Grenadier Guards advance over difficult terrain near the Kasserine Pass, 24 February 1943.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...39922199-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Older rifles had them and then the drawings later excluded them. Ishapore for instance, Australia too...we all have examples of blank swivel mounts...I can't say which year they were written out though.

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That was in 1941

THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH AFRICA 1942. Infantry manning a sandbagged defensive position near El Alamein.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...99371881-1.jpg

My dad liberated pair of German bino's. He said they were superior to the British issued ones he was given.

My German uncle liberated a British petrol stove.

They do say that every other nations kit is ALWAYS better than your own Vince. Vehicles, weapons, optics (as discussed on this forum recently). But guess who's kit prevailed......... It does seem strange about your dads choice of binoculars. Because theMk2 binos that the NCO is peering through were STILL in service - albeit on the cusp of obsolescence - in 2008/9. Not a bad track record is it?

The other guy's kit was always an attractive option to us because you didn't owe it to anyone at day's end and it wasn't layed out for inspection in the morning. Then there was always the old soldier LCF (look cool factor) that accompanied...

Infantry demonstrate how they used ladders to scale the sides of Wadi Zigzuoa on the Mareth line, 27 March 1943.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...79422301-1.jpg

That loks like a 'pole charge' being carried up the nearest ladder. Used for blowing gaps in barbed wire entanglements. I'm not sure that the small Infantry ones are used now but stand to be corrected. There is a monster version called a Giant Viper fired from a trailer, used for blowing a gap through minefields

Hi Peter! Like US Bangalore Torpedo?

Thanks to everyone that posted the war pictures and the explanations of some things that were used during those times. Thoroughly enjoyed them.
Howard

A patrol of the Gordon Highlanders in Wadi Zessar, 10 March 1943.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...44941297-1.jpg

Giant Viper in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHszRV5-bd4

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Giant Viper in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHszRV5-bd4

Looks like a Centurion AVRE towing one of the special trailers mounted with the giant viper thinggies. I'd forgotten how effective they were!

Australian Soldiers. 1918

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...41304351-1.jpg

2nd Division AIF. Light over dark it could be any of 3 battalions (20th, 24th or 28th).

I think the German bino's my dad had were 7x50's. What were the Mk2's?

2nd Division AIF, AWM captions photo (EZ0016) as circa 1916

Our 7x50's were No5 binos. The little No2's were 6x 30

Attachment 61204Attachment 61205

Thanks, Peter. Here's a picture of him at the church parade in Hanover. Second man saluting as they march past the CO and Padre.

Very smart. Date? I put it with those battledress tops as late 40's early 50's (and stick my neck out at pre-52!)

You have a good eye, Peter. 1945

Most of them look like they are wearing 1940 Pattern or tailored(open collar) P40 BDs.

I bet that that church (?) they're marching past is still there. Looks like a Roll of Honour plaque on the wall just to the R of the Provost Cpl. The Padre was not officially 'ranked' as in holding a rank as such but they were Commissioned and given a Rank.........! I never understood it either, especially being one of the mainly non attenders. I just addressed them as Padre.

I bet wearing a kilt was was bloody cold in them N German winters.

Peter,

As long as the kilts heavy weight wool, it's no so bad when cold. Worn one here at -25C or so, and still intact......:lol:

I'll dig some photos out of Canadian lads, WW 2, (found them at the dump years ago.)

Richard.

I was dumping a load of old junk at our local dump many years ago and met the lady who owned the local newspaper shop there doi ng the same after clearing out her late fathers house. She had a shoe box full of old wartime photos from her dads house that she couldn't identify. I took them and said that I'd try and see what I could identify. Most were clearly of his pals and RASC (Royal Army Service Corps) soldiers in the advance up Italy, on the roads with trucks and tank transporters etc etc. Just amazing......... 50% of the transport was CMP type1 ton trucks and US heavy stuff. The rest, the usual Bedfords, Austins etc etc

Took them back to the shop several weeks later with an exercise book full of comments about the pictures but she didn't want them and noone else in the family was really interested. So just sent the lot plus exercise book full of comments/captions to the RASC Museum at Deepcut together with his number, rank and name. What else do you do?

We had a family friend who had been an RAAF officer WAG with Coastal Command during WWII. The stress of constant long over-water, U-boat hunting flights and the risk of a cold and lonely death somewhere in the North Atlantic that went with it apparently took a toll on him. Not long after the war and demobilization, he was hospitalized and remained so until he died. The war had effectively, although not literally, cost him his life.

The short of it was that he was basically abandoned by his family (very high profile in NSW country and Sydney upper society back then), and only our family ever visited him at Concord Repat. Over the years, we ended up care-taking him and the few keepsakes from his war years - his aircrew logbook, a few photos, etc. and would take him on overnight pass for the march on ANZAC Day. Gordon died about 20 years ago and I still have and safeguard those few belongings since his remaining relations don't want them.

The problem is here what happens to Gordon's keepsakes (and the memory of him and his sacrifice) when I go? You can bet that my sons will sift through 'the treasure trove' of my 'stuff' and keep only what has some emotional or fiscal value to them personally. And the rest? Gordon's things?

Very pertinent question, Paul.

At the same dump, ( and I don't live there!) there was the belongings of an old lady, a nurse.
All her photos of when she graduated in 1930's, her nursing degrees and photos of the hospital in India. Big photos and a special display frames for them. Then her -to-be or husband in uniform, and these were the ones I mentioned. Young keen lads just joined up, this chap and his mates. Then a ship, "The (something) of France" forget what it said exactly.
Obviously a troop ship. then same lads cleaning equipment in gardens in France.

Other things too, Great War poppy brooches when they were made of enammeled metal, a gold sweetheart pin. (9 carat) bracelts near worn out from India. (I repaired one for my daughter, Bidri work) watch chains, her watch. (still worked) the lot. They'd taken all the drawers out of her dressing table and chucked everything.
I thought at the time, "Somebody has just chucked this lady's whole life away" Damned sad.

Richard.