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For all of us serious collectors that look for the real, genuine article, you will be shocked:
WWII BRITISH NO. 4 MK 1 ENFIELD TANKER CARBINE : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com
Some of the Enfield collector's community has lost its grounding and beginning to fly over the cuckoo's nest.
Look for a bunch of these conversions to show up soon at these prices. Just wait until they start putting sniper scopes on these........and start carving trench art on the stocks........
To quote the seller... Rifle was converted to a “tanker carbine” by the importer, with the barrel shortened to about 20” and a muzzle compensator added ... And they stilled payed big.
Starting price wouldn't have been bad.
I've noticed that over here in Australia the prices have almost doubled in the last year or so. I don't know if this is because of the impending 100 year anniversary of the Gallipoli Landings and a ground swell of interest in all things ANZAC. Or just that the rifles have become more collectable in general. Terrific if you want to sell one. But a pain in the butt if you want to buy. :crying:
mungo
Same in NZ, I see that is good though as more guns will get looked after I hope. Hopefully it will also boost the demand for barrels encouraging more to be made, ditto brass and projectiles and prices will drop for consumables.
"Aaatch-shill!" Oh excuse me, must be my hay fever! ;)
Hail Gibbs Rifle Co.! We who are about to die salute you!
Wow! Who new the phrase "converted by the importer" would triple the price. Is "tanker" the new "sniper"? I must say this seller seems to get a a premium on his sales. I think he got $1500 a few weeks back for a scopeless No4 T
I know the old eyes arn't as good as they used to be and it could be a trick of the light but doesn't the last picture show a rather large saw cut in the barrel. If that is so then it really would be a "fun shooter".................:confused:
It could be an auction rope-a-dope where you buy something you made yourself to generate an interest and a standard value before you sell a bunch more. Then again ..........
They can't even get the nomenclature right. This side of the pond we say "tankie" not tanker.
Once again, one I've never heard of. Interesting tactic of internet sales...somewhat dishonest though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smellymarkfive
Tankers......., yes.......... Yes......... On this side of the pond, a tanker is something totally different. Usually out on a Sunday morning, age 75, leather flying helmet, driving at 37mph in an open top 110mph customised E type on single carriageway road when you are 9th in line BEHIND, trying to get past. Have I got the spelling right Beery.......?
W.C. Fields made a marvelous movie in the 1930s called "Road Hog" that epitomized your tankers. Unfortunately his movie seems to have trained generations to perform his irritating callousness, and its gone viral. The response is "Road Rage." Alas, perhaps horses in open fields and bicycles on back trails may be the best alternative. Or, you may choose to hoist the sails matey and take to the sea! Just bring your Enfield Tanker Carbine on board to repel boarders!Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
There are some very conniving sellers that know how to manipulate the "game." (BTW, I am NOT alleging this happened in this situation!!! Nor am I saying it is common, I have not personally experienced this game, and have bought guns with very satisfactory results on GunBroker.)Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
It takes two "names" to play the "Rope a Dope," but these names are either just pseudonyms for the seller or just shills for the seller who are "bidding stooges."
Here's how the game works:
- Seller posts the product, then arranges to have one or two bidders (shills or pseudonyms) crank up the bids, creating a "feeding frenzy."
- Innocent bidder, who is not terribly aware of real values, gets roped in, figuring that if several other experienced bidders are in the fray, the value must be there.
- As the price escalates, the shills watch how fast the innocent bidder responds to their counter-bids. To the innocent, his odds look like 33% because there are 2 other bidders at this point.
- If the innocent bidder slows down his response times in counter-offering, it means he is probably beginning to have doubts about his chances of winning (or is running out of money or doesn't see the value).
- At this point one of the shills drops out, figuring if the innocent thinks he now has a 50/50 chance of winning, he will stay in the game a bit longer.
- As the bidding and counter-bidding slows down again, the last shill drops out, leaving the innocent holding the final bid.
- If the innocent fails to bid on the final round (which is possible, but a lower probability than winning the final bid) the gun never really sells, and shows up on some other auction site at a later date.
Hopefully exposing this technique will save someone the pain of inadvertently becoming "the dope that got roped."
BTW, if in other parts of the world you aren't familiar with the term, it's a boxing phrase that Mohammad Ali (aka Cassius Clay) used to make his opponents think the was "on the ropes" and ready to fold. Then he would miraculously turn the tide as he emerged from his "stupor."
Shill bidding I'm fully aware of...just the rope a dope thing. That's a good reason a man can't let himself get swept up with bidding and needs to set a limit. Then just wait to see if you won or not...
And yes, I also remember the Ali thing. But too, he used to hit like a train.
On this side ''Tankie'' is a somewhat derogatory slang term for a member of the Boilermaker trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
I've been dealing with this seller for several years now and IMO he's as honest as they come. I found out about his gun/parts business from a friend of mine from upstate NY that knows him personally.
He seems to always list pretty nice rifles and they always sell for more than I can spend.
I wasn't trying to be super cynical but the antiques trade is full of tricks, the best solution is to knowledge up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaspriter
The importer was Interarms who didn't convert any LE rifles to "Tankers" that I know of unlike Navy Arms, Gibbs Rifle Co., etc. My uneducated guess is it was butchered and rebuilt in someone's home workshop in the not-too-distant past.
There were a bunch available here in Canada not that long ago Brian. I forget who had them but it was something new until it came to light they weren't what they seemed. Now that's in the past so we re-live the history...
Aside from the “muzzle compensator”, I like it. It's short and would be a good “truck gun”.
That’s what we call the guns we keep in our pickup trucks on this side of the herring pond. ;)
Same here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
I note that it was sold as a curio and relic. To be eligible to be a C&R, the rifle has to be in original configuration. I don't think being hacked short would qualify.
I think, from reading the C&R regs that you are technically correct. This would make every "sporterized" Enfield out of spec for C&R sales. It would also mean every non-complete Enfield (barrel, receiver, and butt without forestock, handguards, etc.) was illegal. I haven't heard of the BATFE clamping down on this problem. Does anyone know how this issue is dealt with? I know collectors are not trying to skirt the law, but how closely is this clause in the C&R actually interpreted in the C&R Regs? If BATFE were too tight on the interpretation, it would severely limit the restoration of guns that have been Bubba'd and Butchered.Quote:
Originally Posted by breakeyp
Vincent, I've been thinking the same thing. I think it would look even better with a No.1 Nose Cap/Guard on the muzzle, making it look like a real "Bulldog Tanker."Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent
Here's a "musing:"
I was "given" (it cost me $35) a sporterized No.4 with a cut down barrel (the nose is missing nearly 2 inches) and all forestock furniture either cut down or missing. And the receiver's bridge had been cut off for a modern scope mount years ago. It's not worth much, and probably not worth restoring. I took it off a friend's hands and thought might just strip it for parts. Right now the thing sits far back in the corner of a closet, out of sight, out of mind. It seems uneconomical to restore it to original configuration, and with the receiver bridge missing, it will always be second rate.
Thus the gun seems either unworthy of retrieving (and left alone), or should be converted to something else -- like a "tanker" model: cutting down the barrel to 18 inches, narrowing the muzzle nose to fit a No.1 sight, putting on new front-end furniture, and carving the fore-end to fit a No.1 Nose Cap (to give it a "bull-nose" look).
This is something I've never contemplated with historic gun, but it would be "conversion" to a new use and look. Is this a crazy idea? or a creative idea? or a good investment? or a waste of time?
Everyone in Milsurps land has strong opinions -- I'd like to hear the pro's and con's before doing something (or nothing). Thanks
Seaspriter, What a coincidence you should mention making a "Bulldog Tanker" with a No.1 Nose Cap. Just a few days ago a friend asked me if I could make him the exact same thing.
Once the barrel has been cut down, it’s not economical to restore. So there’s nothing to lose in making a "Bulldog Tanker".
Personally I think it’s creative and much better than having it sit in the back of the closet.
Paul is spot on. It depends on how knowledgeable the ATF compliance inspector or CBP inspector at the port of entry is. Sporterized or otherwise blatantly modified Curio and Relic milsurp rifles are not importable either as they are required to be in original military configuration.
Here's a rifle up for sale in NZ, has a nice lengthy description.
SCARCE DEACTIVATED + SECTIONALISED 303 LEE ENFIELD | Trade Me