Cant find my book but that serial number should be a PF?
Cant find my book but that serial number should be a PF?
Go back and check out the following post, it will give you some idea of the data on this topic. Bear in mind Capt Laidler disagrees.
Fritz's FF marked Enfield sticky - Page 2
Check out post #57 the data is there
Frederick303/Fritz
I have a bad gateway error, will try later. I am getting a bit concerned on some of the stuff I see here in NZ, I really wonder on some of the claims I am seeing on guns "still in wrapper" Some seem to be coming from WW2 guns that I find hard to believe.
I used to have A15419 in the wrap.
What makes you think it is an 'Irish Contract' rifle ?
You'll have to come to the auction and check out the rifle, its in its original wrapping as per the photo in the catalogue. I believe the 'Irish Contract' statement will of come from the vendor. At the moment the rifle is most likely buried and won't be available to look at till the items are all put out on the tables for the auction.
The auction catalouge states it is Irish contract, yet the records I have say a Mk2 should be a PF or UF number and the Irish contract was "PF 309348 to PF 359347 Irish Republic (50,000 rifles)". In terms of checking it out it is why I asked here as I have seen several Axxxxx mk2's in NZ but I dont know where they came from, I'd like to know. I have also seen several other claims of WW2 LB rifles etc "still in their wrap", "still in grease" etc which I was and am dubious about. Rifles of all sorts being sold "in the wrap"s is getting a bit frequent to my mind and of course cannot be easily checked.
If anyone wants to look the catalouge is at Militaria Auction
@Baal any idea where it originated from?
Here's the rifle, the wrapping still has its original Fazakerley labels. Like I said the 'Irish Contract' is probably what the seller stated it was. Regardless, you won't get a better New/'unissued' No. 4 Rifle. I think it will end up going to Australia.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lcogwjso-1.jpg
Can I stop you all here............ Regarding the so called 'Irish Contract' rifles, I think the time is right to spill some of the beans now that certain events are over. It's going to take a few days to get it all written up so..........
Had not much to do this afternooin so I've written it up as a new thread. I have my steel helmet on to await the incoming flak - and am always prepared to listen to reason. But bear in mind, there's much more to what I've said of course........
I purchased mine from Police Ordnance here in Canada. These are NOT Irish contract, but they are brand new in wrap beautiful rifles.
The last one an actual irish contract rifle I saw was sold here in NZ still in wrapper for >$2kNZ, one not in the wrapper but unused about $1800NZ. My issue is that when I see a error in the description having seen so many other misleading "mistakes" that I become very careful. Honesty it seems is at a premium, eg In the last auction there was supposedly a P14, in very good condition and Fulton marked owned by a Ballinger belt winner. I cant challenge the last but the gun was a) with a worn out barrel, b) badly split wood and a generally abused stock and metal and c) not fultons regulated stamped. On top of that Ive been to enough auctions now to know who ever looks down the barrel of the No4s is blind.
In any event the Axxxx serial number is a mystery still it seems.
@baal , l did it have sold out of UK service marks?
I,m afraid that's the the sign of the times ssj, regarding auctions I,ve only come away with one melon but thats down to me, from dealers themselves probably a few (No one on this forum).Quote:
Originally Posted by ssj
Some of the auction descriptions I know of in the UK have been a bit dubious at times .... but sometimes it can be in your favour especially when it comes to mistakes on there behalf .......
A regular auction here does list whats in the up and coming one, so its just a case of a study and do your home work then decide is it worth me travelling from A to B for X .....
Mine had no sold out of service marks and no import marks.
Interesting the 2 I have seen did not either as far as I recall. Maybe their origin is the Canadian Police being sold off. I think I saw somewhere that there were some guns assembled from ready made parts after the official cease.
I tried to get some more details for you about the rifle yesterday. The 'irish contract' is what the vendor stated to the auctioneer for cataloging. The serial number A15222 is the number written on the OUTSIDE of the wrapping on the official label. Unfortunately the rifle was well buried in a stack of military rifles that will be up for auction and I didn't get a chance to look at it.
It will be very interesting ti see what it sells for, I had planned to bid on it but it turns out I know a couple of people who are also planning on bidding so I won't. I have a couple all ready so I shouldn't be greedy I'm told.
I'm interested in why it's thought that it will end up in Australia?
Foreigners are willing to pay more. What no one has said yet is, where does it come from. In any event its going to be around $2KNZD I would think. I buy Enfields to shoot, hence its not of interest to me as it should be kept in the wrapper, but to understand the Axxxx serial number.
Typically the Aussies do like to buy them because they can get them back into Australia and in the past they Aussie dollar was stronger. But maybe with the weak AUS dollar they won't get it?
I'll be watching closely then, if it sells for $2k I may have to sell one!
Personally I suspect serial number just got written down wrong, I unwrapped one of these a couple of years ago to use and the number on the rifle was not the same as the note on the outside of the rifle.
Except baal had such a numbered gun and this is now the 3rd I have seen / read about in NZ.
Think I'll go along on the Friday evening just to look at the wrapper for clues.
Why do you think it is a Irish rifle. Being in a wrap dose not automatically mean it is a Irish contract one. There are many rifles outside the Irish contract range in wraps or have been.
From what I have heard from folks who were at the final packaging of the irish rifle sales in 1997 (bought by century and sent to Canada), each rifle was taken out of the box (5 PER BOX) and the paper slit open on the left side of the action body to check the serial number. This was done under the supervison of an officer. Only after each serial number was verifed were the rifles shipped.
If the rifle has a fully closed wrap, that is no slit on the left side of the action, it is likely that it came out of UK stores and not Ireland, at least not the final batch of new in wrap rifles shipped out in 1997.
Frederick, it's my guess that you have a listing of all the UF-55 & UF-56 serial numbers and the contracting buyers. You've probably posted this listing or know where it's posted. Could you lead us to that listing if it exists?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
Thanks, Robert
Go back, it isnt a UF or PF rifle, it is a Axxxxx No4 mk2.
Here are the notes I have collected on the mk2s.
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It is believed that the first batch of 100,000 MK2's were numbered :
PF 118000 PF 217999
Following on from this initial batch were three fairly small batches :
PF 218000 PF 219799 (1800)
PF 219799 PF 275947 (56,148)
PF 225948 PF 250947 ( 25,000)
In 1951/52 they started producing the 'contact rifles' - there is a huge list of rifles by country but here are the first few (including the infamous 'Irish Contract'
PF 250948 PF 301547 British Army
PF 301548 PF 304047 Sudanese Order
PF 304048 PF 309347 N/Known
PF 309348 PF 359347 Irish Republic (50,000 rifles so why all the interest ??)
PF 359348 PF 359747 N/Known
PF 359748 PF 359817 Zambia
If you really want a 'rare one' forget the Irish contract and get one of these :
PF411462-PF411471 Hong Kong (10 rifles)
Last MkI on file - 4/1949 PF97096
First Mk2 on file - 5/1949 PF100412
I bought an Enfield No4 MK 2 this week at a gun shop for $300. It is 1/55 PF 3402xx
PF301548-PF304047 Anglo-Egyptian Sudan
PF309348-PF359347 Irish Republic
PF359748-PF359817 Zambia
PF359818-PF359952 Singapore
PF359953-PF360052 Jamaica
PF360053-PF360202 Trinidad
PF360203-PF360238 St. Vincent
PF360239-PF360258 St. Kitts
PF360259-PF360459 War Office
PF360460-PF381159 Uganda
PF361160-PF361259 Parker Hale
PF361260-PF401086 Burma
PF401087-PF401459 Allocated for T conversion
PF404157-PF404206 Parker Hale
PF405393-PF405412 St. Vincent
PF405513-PF405712 Admiralty contract
PF405813-PF405848 Fulton
PF407649-PF407648 Trinidad
PF407649-PF407728 Zanzibar
PF411229-PF411264 Fulton
PF411265-PF411461 Kenya
PF411462-PF411471 Hong Kong
Looking at the large number of late Mk1s/early Mk2s coming out of South Africa with govt property stamps on them, perhaps we can pencil in PF 100000 as the first Mk2, and PF 100000 to - say - PF 120000 as "South Africa"......?
PF 100000 PF 120000 South Africa?
PF 118000 PF 217999 N/K 100,000 Start of Mk II Production.
PF 218000 PF 219799 N/K 1800
PF 219799 PF 275947 N/K 56,148
PF 225948 PF 250947 N/K 25,000
Circa 1951/52
PF 250948 PF 301547 British Army 50,600
PF 301548 PF 304047 Sudanese Order 2499
PF 304048 PF 309347 N/K 5300
PF 309348 PF 359347 Irish Republic 49,999?
PF 359348 PF 359747 N/K 400
PF 359748 PF 359817 Zambia 469
PF 359818 PF 359852 Singapore 34
PF 359953 PF 360052 Kingston 99
PF 360053 PF 360202 Trinidad 149
PF 360203 PF 360238 St Vincent 35
PF 360239 PF 360258 St Kitts 19
PF 360259 PF 360459 War Office? 200
(21 missing numbers)
PF 360480 PF 361159 Uganda 679
PF 361160 PF 361259 Parker Hale 99
PF 361028 10/53
PF 361280 PF 401086 Burma 39,806
PF 401087 PF 401495 No 4 (T) Rifles ? 408
PF 401496 PF 404156 N/K 2661
PF 401157 PF 404206 Parker Hale 3049
PF 404207 PF 405392 N/K 1186
PF 405393 PF 405412 St Vincent 19
Circa 1954
PF 405413 PF 405512 N/K 100
PF 405513 PF 405712 Admiralty 100
PF 405713 PF 405812 N/K 100
PF 405813 PF 405848 G E Fulton (Bisley) 35
PF 405849 PF 407448 N/K 1600
PF 406534 10/49
PF 407449 PF 407648 Trinidad 199
PF 407649 PF 407728 Zanzibar 79
PF 407729 PF 411228 N/K 3500
PF 411229 PF 411264 G E Fulton (Bisley) 35
PF 411265 PF 411481 Kenya 216
PF 411482 PF 411471 ? Hong Kong 11
(Confusion of batch No’s!)
PF 411472 PF 412789 N/K 1318
1951 Special Order
PP1 PP43 Parker Hale
PP44 PP47 To an unknown UK source
Enfield No.4 MK2 (F) questions
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NZ located that I have seen,
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British F 10-49 PF516704 no4 mk2 auction Wgtn date wrong? Serial no wrong? Jul 13 5 groove
British not sure 1958? N22xxx no4 mk2? trademe good Post 56 production from bits? 01/00/00 5 groove
British F 2/52 230748 no4 mk2 trademe good or better full barrel incl baynot Aug 13
British F 2/52 230176 no4 mk2 trademe good barrel shortened May 13 5 groove
F 1955 UF55 ??92 no4 mk2 auction Wgtn some mods May 14
British F 1955 UF55 A26980 no4 mk2 tm Excellent – my gun ex army sold out of service mark Aug 13 5 groove
British not sure unknown 121929 no4 mk2 tm looks very very good Late built bits gun? Aug 13 5 groove
British F mar1954 PF308777 no4 mk2 tm Looks excellent aj parker Sept 13 5 groove
British F 3/54 PF323148 no4 mk2 Militaria Ex Irish Blonde Oct 13
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