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Can anyone tell me whether Thompson 50 rd drum magazines are available, for the 1928 Thompson, at an affordable price and if so where, please? I would be most interested in an original item but failing that a good repro would suffice. Could one of the soviet drum mags be modified to fit, if all else failed? How easy would it be for a private individual to import a single mag from the states? A 1928 Thompson just doesn't look right with anything else other than a drum mag.
Thank-you
There were some 39 rd drums made at the end of the stuff I was able to get from Numrich, I'd ordered a proper 50 rd before that. That would have been 1992...it was $217 US at that time. I've seen them at gunshows in Canada for $500 and up. Real ones command premium prices, these mostly were repros. I sold my 1928 recently to a young guy and the drum accompanied as dewat, I believe I could have gotten near $1000 for it alone... Don't know if you can get one from the US or Canada to the UK, I'd think you'll have better luck drawing from your resources there...in Europe... I don't think a PPSh drum will make it. They just don't look close enough. We have a couple of dealers here that will know for sure about you importing them...
There was a lot of US lend lease drums came in from released War Stores in the Ukraine about 10 years ago. But even then, they were highly priced - and prized......... Have you ever heard the phrase '.....rocking horse manure.....'
We had a guy at the Calgary show about three years ago selling Thompson stuff. Everything you could imagine... He did very well and never came back. It just showed me how many were around under the floor boards, so to speak. Guys younger than me buying them...and to own an F/A version, you'd have to be my age minimum. That stuff seldom appears and then it disappears for an eternity. Price is dictated by availability.
Tom Bowers sells lots of it. http://www.subguns.com/classifieds/?...=&session_key=
Rubin Mendiola too... DealerNFA Ruben Mendiola
difficult to find the early Colt TSMG 100 round drum in nice condition and matching front and back serial number. Some collectors buy the new repro 100 round drum for a lot less but these new repros often need internal work before shooting them.
Years ago gun shows often had 100 round drums from South America but the condition was not very good and lacking collector interest.
The 50 round drum with the New York address (depending on variation) can run $1200 to $2000 on the collector market while the WW2 drums still in the cardboard sleeve can also push $1000 nowAttachment 61831Attachment 61832
Reproductions made in Taiwan (probably) have appeared in recent years. The earliest ones had the Auto Ordnance name and trademark on them, action by the present holders of the trademark saw that removed and more recent ones have been unmarked. The Crosby name has also been on some of them. These repros do not have the rotor packed with grease, unlike the originals, so you have to do that yourself (a tool needs to be made to do this). Some have had to be 'doctored' somewhat to make them work reliably.
You should bear in mind that the bolt needs to be retracted to fasten the drum, so if the gun is one of the more recent deacts which does not do this it will be money wasted.
Reproduction Thompson Accessories Reference Guide - Thompson Submachine Gun Message Board - MachineGunBoards.com Forums
Greasing a new reproduction L drum - Thompson Submachine Gun Message Board - MachineGunBoards.com Forums
Thanks to every-one for all this useful info. I wasn't aware that the bolt had to be retracted in order to fit a drum mag to a Thompson so this is very useful to know. My Thompson is a new UK spec example with non moving bolt although the cocking handel does move.
Zib Militaria in Germany sell a repro drum quite cheaply that can be made to fit a recent deact Thompson by filing/dremmelling the RH feed lip on the drum.
Denix Repro drums are available in the UK/ Not steel though, but they are a cheap alternative. For something that you will only hang on the wall!
I have one for my own M1928. I would like an original, but cannot justify the asking price in the UK! That money would by another Deact!.....
I did see 3 origins for sale earlier in the year for an eye watering £450 each.
Thompson drums is a superb example of getting something while you can. Even if it hurts your pocket in the process. I bought 8, ex Home Guard, still wrapped in oil-paper and in boxes in 1978/9 or so for an eye wateringly crippling £8 each. And couldn't even sell the 6 I didn't want for £10 each - in order to make a bit of a profit!
Glad I kept 5 of 'em now.........................
These two Bridgeport 50 rd drums are still new in their cardboard sleeves. They are also stamp U for United Specialties Company who was a WW2 contractorhttps://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../116t0tx-1.jpg
Years ago Lever arms in Vancouver had them by the bushel basket for $5 each. Not as long ago as one might think either...
That's JUST like mine RCS. But they're wrapped in that oil-paper type/oil resistant or waterproof paper stuff........ you know the brown stuff that I mean. Probably as additional protection as they tramped them across the atlantic.
£450 quid......... they ain't makin 'em no more! I suppose it'd make it worethwhile if we could actually use them. I did give one of mine to the Small Arms School to use in place of the ratty old heap that was being used
I seem to recall reading somewhere that when significant numbers of 20 and 30 rnd stick mags for the Thompson started arriving in the U.K. during the early part of the War some of the drum mags were returned to the states. I have no way of knowing if this is any way correct and if so were they put to further use in the U.S. or did they end up being scrapped???
I seriously doubt that happened, I've personally been involved in destruction of equipment rather than ship it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
There is no record of mags - or any of the paid-up-front material being returned to source in the public archives. Especially since we did indeed pay up-front - and in gold too - BEFORE it was loaded onto the ships!!
As early as April 1941 the British, following trials at the Small Arms School at Bisley, had become convinced that the drum was of doubtful utility. The reasons given were:
"mechanically delicate
"heavy and unwieldy to carry
"difficult to judge when the drum is nearly empty - firer has a tendency to assume drum is inexhaustible, whereas with the box he is taught to reload after every shoot"
By May instructions were given to exclude the drum from further orders and boost the number of box magazines ordered instead. At this stage the US Ordnance Department was committed to ordering 510,000 "and for reasons of good faith and public policy will not cancel". By December the British Purchasing Commission was instructed not to ship the 47,000 drums it had accumulated in the USA and to offer them to the US or other allies receiving Lend-Lease. The balance appear to have been scrapped in the end.
[source: T. Davis, Great Britain:The Tommy Gun Story, (2014) which I did some of the research for.]
It was in the Thompson book "American Thunder" that said that the British Army started returning the 50 round drums to the US in 1944
But the question is were they returned or scrapped. And the answers in 18 and 19 say that they weren't returned to the USA. They might well have been scrapped or the orders cancelled. It's correct that even the mildest of dings around the edge will cause a jamb.
We had 2 at work that would jam-up at 15 and 8 rounds. Even after turning up an internal steel dolly to make the edges good, they didn't really improve much. (probably made worse by years of amateur repairs/fixes by assorted bubbas). A new-in-wrap gift solved the problem once and for all - which my son tested by giving the target the whole nine yards so to speak!
(A term from aircraft machine guns in WW1, referring to the belt length on board.) This case it's more like the whole 2 lbs. I must say that when I brought mine out to play, that was the thing people wanted most. To go through the whole drum in about one go. Very satisfying though...I'd have enjoyed seeing the boy warm that one up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I think that I've remembered where I read that some of the drum mags were returned to the States and it was a different book to the one mentioned in Post 21. I will need to see if I can find it in the book concerned before saying in case I am thinking of the wrong book. Just because it is stated in a book doesn't make it fact.
'........Just because it is stated in a book doesn't make it fact'. Never have so few words been so true. Just the pure logic of such a scenario defies description. At the height of a war, we're sending serviceable, new magazines back for a refund........... Nope. Think Catalina flying boats at the bottom of Loch Erne.........
Or crated Jeep engines, Harley Davidson WLA Motorcycles, oh yes! & HUGE amounts of complete Machine Guns & assorted spares. Buried all over the UK. 'Close' to MANY military Camps where the US Armed Forces were based here!......................................MUCH easier to get rid of surplus by burying it. Rather than the costly logistical nightmare of return to sender route! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Not to mention the German subs.......
Not to mention the buried Spitfires in Burma... :madsmile:
Attachment 73106
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Very pretty though...unless they were bringing a gun run.
The spitfire was never fitted with 50 round drums. Because they used belt fed .303" barrelled wing mounted Brownings. In Banks of four, & later 20mm Cannon................ZZzzzzzz :madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by gsimmons
NOTE: A 'Font of all Knowledge' Qoute!........;)
Not to be mistaken with the Iron Cloud, I think it was called...which was fitted with Thompsons for ground support and trialed after WW1...
The book which I was thinking of is: Great Britain - The Tommy Gun Story by Tom Davis Jr. I can't find anything in the book about the drum mags being returned to the States but it does offer a clue as to how the story may have arose. On page 58 it states that about 50,000 drum mags were in storage which were made under contract for the British after they decided they decided it was not suitable for military use. What it doesn't tell us is which side of the pond the storage is but in my opinion it sounds like the States. The book goes on to say that U.S. Ordnance considered them only fit for scrap and it was decided to do so. I suspect that what has happened here is that,at some time, some-one has heard that some British owned Thompson Drum mags have been scrapped in the States and has put 2 and 2 together making 44. They assumed that the mags were shipped back to the States to be scrapped when in actual fact they never left. I don't know that this is what happened but I suspect it may be how the story arose.