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A friend of mine has come back into shooting after a 20 year break. He is of course dead keen to buy something as he has a nice shiny BLANK FAC! Originally he as after a 7.62 SMLE but has seen this. Enfield No4 7.62 mm Rifles For Sale in Gloucestershire - GS5148109 | GunStar
Does anyone know anything about it, Is the price reasonable? I know what I think as I have a D.I.Y No4T Repro with original scope but I'd value other opinions.
I would not buy it. It is something that someone has cobbled together. It is not a No.4T nor is it a an L42 - it is neither fish nor foul.
It is not collectable because it isn't "real" and it would be no use as a sporting rifle because it is too heavy.
The No.32 is probably worth more than the rifle but together they are not worth two grand - or anything like it.
I wouldn't say cobbled together, as I would say someone has put some time into it, plus the scope has been "refurbed" by Peter, to cobble a rifle together I wouldn't expect a real No32 and what I think is a DRP bracket or maybe a real one ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
Certainly not built to rip anyone off either in my opinion, the price well..... all prices are negotiable.
Totally agree regarding value of the scope and bracket and also the mag (if its a genuine one)
Price breakdown,
Scope and Bracket not much if any change from £1000-£1200
No4 rifle in 7.62mm £400 + or -
Pads £ 40
7.62mm mag £ 50- 70 +
Cost of setting the pads up and bracket if done correct ???
I,ve got no part in the sale or know the seller and I wouldn't pay that price myself but with the price breakdown and the Gunsmiths time your not far off the sale price. If your mates still looking Robert I,m selling off some bits etc PM me.
Would I pay that for it as that works out to around $3,800.00 Canadian, no however if it shoots as good as it looks it is a pretty nice gun. For someone looking for a period gun in a modern caliber it might be a decent acquisition.
Maybe a little expensive however considering all that went into it and the scope has been rebuilt by Peter Laidler not a rip off at all.
dQuote:
Originally Posted by bigduke6
There's the rub. The cost of the job has no bearing on what the rifle is worth afterwards.
A friend of mine, a car dealer, was "offered" a Toyota Celica with that had had a body kit and other accessories fitted. The seller added the top price of a Toyota Celica of that year to the cost of the work told my friend that was all he wanted for the car - that is to say what he had put into it. My friend pointed out that not only was the car not worth that amount but, due to the customising, the car wa, as far as he was concerted unsaleable, and so he was not interested in it at any price.
I was just about to comment '........how I hate this blurb that mentions me' and agree with the previous knockers. But then I looked at the rifle. The scope and bracket are original, as is the magazine.
But Beery, your comparison isn't comparing like with like. This rifle ain't been customised - or made worthless - depending on your point of view of course - but by the look of it, has been enhanced into a repop of something we all aspire to own WITHOUT THE GRIEF of a) doing it and b) the expense of an original and c) it's perfectly useable. It ain't original of course but there again, 50% of the 1963-70 Mini Cooper S's on the road ain't either!
No connection with it at all except my name added to the scope - which I hate with a vengeance! Anyone see the scope number and I'll see what my old records say
Understand that BH, I was just breaking the price down and if anyone was going to build one up it gives the rough cost, I would say I,ve priced the scope/bracket low and looking at No4's on Guntrader and Gunstar probably underpriced the rifle ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
The other thing here is if Peter has the history of the scope then thats another tick in the box, (like buying a car with service history)
I,m guessing Its probably been range tested also, so maybe all the faults if any have been Ironed out too........??
What´s NOT to like about it?? The man wants to shoot, not to collect nick-nacks. Could there ever be anything better´n a No 4 MkII with a real bracket and that scope. If the mag works and it´s a precise shooter, I´d go for it like the proverbial. The only reason I´ve got a scoped mongrel No. 5 in .308 is that I can´t jet around to the rifle range on my motorbike with a great long musket on my back (not without trailing a convoy of cops behind me). Purists have never worried me. It´s a free country (so I´m told).
We have a HT on used guns in Aus for or was 10.5K, it is like everything if your a purist then go ahead shell out the dollars I paid a pretty hefty price for my No.4 T why because I have always wanted one since I first saw them and in awe of the persons utilizing them, so 30 years later down the track when I could just afford it I brought just the rifle no CES nothing plain an' simple. (Mind you I suffered plenty from my wife hence CINDERS)
There are those out there that go with what they can afford and if this rifle checks out with a qualified gunsmith what is the hassle of a 2k purchase, you just do not throw pads on a receiver then again Steve in N.Y tried a Furphy on us gave me a heart attack when I saw those phillips heads:yikes:.
Everything we buy is an individual choice and it is the end user who decides whether they want it or not, it looks okay and may be a perfectly good rifle so why not have something just a little different that's just my opinion which in the big scheme of things may not amount to much for some but if you want a thing bad enough you will pay or wait like I did
This gun appears to be the artistry of a quality gunsmith. In Britain I think you call this type of customizing "bespoke;" in this case it's "marrying" the parts from related species to produce something that's supposed to be "synergistic" where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
Whether this "married" gun achieves the goal of synergy is totally within the eye of the beholder, much like the "Tanker Carbine Enfield" that sold for $1,000 on Gunbroker last month. Or a custom hotrod that marries a Chrysler Hemi engine in a Rolls Royce body. Or a P-51 Mustang that marries an American airframe with a Rolls Royce Merlin engine.
The problem with many marriages is that the creator's sense of value is not necessarily what would be acknowledged by a large market of customers -- but there may be a small handful that would see beauty in each. The problem of value and beauty is like an artist who decides to blend the best qualities of Marilyn Monroe, Rita Hayworth, Sophia Loren, and Syd Charisse into one image -- would the result be the most beautiful woman in the world? It's all in the eye of the beholder.
The advocates of either side of the debate between the "purists" and the "marriage of best-in-class" could stretch around the world and reach no conclusion because only the market will tell.
However, the P-51/RR marriage was truly synergistic because it has been confirmed by its track-record in aerial combat.
If we could take this gun to the target range and find that it drives 5 rounds into a 1 inch spread at 100 yds, then this gun is being evaluated in the crucible of action, and we would know if the gun's creator had achieved real synergy.
Unsaid to this point, I believe, is that if this is a Long Branch, and has actually been converted to a Mk 2, it is a rare, rare No 4 Mk 1 body. Not very many of these exist.
Now, if he converted it himself, it's a shame.
But if it was a REAL Long Branch No. 4 Mk1/2, it's a CRYING shame.
That said, I'd own it.
Peter, I understand your dislike of your name being used however from what I have seen you have a reputation of doing excellent work which means to a buyer confidence in what is being sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I have a friend who is a excellent motorcycle mechanic, he is well known and his love of Harley's and the ability to fix them properly. Do I think a Harley is a good bike, no however IF I was interested in one and he did the rebuild it would make a huge difference in my decision to buy it.
I imagine there are a fair amount of people who are capable of rebuilding a scope however there are two or three that are known for doing it right, you happen to be one of them. If I was selling a scope you rebuilt of course I would mention that hoping the prospective buy knew of your reputation.
I did not mean to imply that the rifle is worthless, although I personally would not buy it for the reasons stated. I was saying that the sum of the costs is not the place to start pricing. Only the market knows what it is worth.
BTW, I don't think that anyone who has not handled and/or fired the rifles can comment on its quality.
I might be wrong here but is that not an original Canadian 4 T thats had new wood and a 7.62 barrel fitted. The pics aren't great, would need better ones to be sure but the pads look like they may be original, with the action machined for them, they seem to have a few stake marks around the screws also.
I was thinking the seller may have let himself down a bit with his sales blurb, that could be a 7.62 converted No4 mk 1/3. Bet it wont shoot as well as it did in .303
I can't enlarge the pictures of the body side markings but what might this read under the obliterated or pixelled out markings. Might it be an L8 A3 variant? If so, then, at £2000 you'd be all choking on your corn flakes!
The rifle was sold today anyone here ?? just spoke to the owner, it was Never a T to start with but built by an Armourer ....... if anyone bought it let us know how it shoots.
Yes indeed beery - once you have something fixed up you feel it 'owes' you a certain amount... Probably to be in reality only repaid by the use you get out of it yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
Hello.
Thanks to all who have commented. My friend is having a look at the rifle. My next question is can anyone remember the website of the NZ dealer that had a load of No32 scopes advertised a few months ago? I have tried a 'Search' but no joy so far.
Robert,
Probably best asking on the main forum, let us know how your mate gets on with the rifle. Are you looking for any No32 scope?
An update. My friend bought the rifle which was built by an ex military man known to Capt Laidler who had reconditioned the scope. He's delighted with it and it seems to shoot well.
Wasn't built by me - or do you mean the telescope was? Ah, I see now........ by someo0ne known to me. That narrows it down to a few thousands!