1943 US made Enfield

I picked up a 1943 Savage made Enfield today. Serial Number 58C1581 with matching number bolt and magazine. It's had some work done, I wish it hadn't, but I thought it was still a worthwhile pickup. This is my first Enfield and I was amazed at all the information in the Knowledge Library. I do have a couple questions, is the FR burned in the stock for "Factory Repair"? Is there any reoccurring issues with these that I should be looking for before shooting?

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Thanks for looking.

Hopefully those with more knowledge than I can comment. This sort of surprised me as I would have expected the bolt to be stamped like the receiver?

Hence I would check its headspace and that both lugs are load bearing before firing it.

FR is Factory Rebuild in India. But they aren't the ones who coated it in spay poly, holy buckets is that thing shinny!

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I kind of figured that "Refinish" was at the hands of some diabolical maniac. Maybe it was used as a parade gun? I don't know.

[QUOTE=CruciBill;329969]Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, I kind of figured that "Refinish" was at the hands of some diabolical maniac.

LOL!!!! I love this term "diabolical maniac."

If it's just poly it would be pretty easy to strip off and re oil the stock.

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Originally Posted by ssj

Hence I would check its headspace and that both lugs are load bearing before firing it.

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Thanks. I will.

I don't have much $$ into this rifle. If the bolt is a fake, but it ends up being safe to shoot, I'll be happy. Maybe I can melt some of that finish off 10 rounds at a time.

BTW, it is considered bad form to leave a rifle cocked like that.

I thought that the FR mark was a Pakistan mark. India was the place for gallons of thick paint and a bolt through the fore-end.

If you want the metalwork resurrected and the bolt fit/function/CHS tested and checked and put right just ask Brian at BDL in SC. He has the knowledge, skill and tools to refinish to UK MoiD spec and correct the faults.

THey cal all be brought back to life but the rear of the body (photo 3) looks like it's been ground out to within an inch of its life

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Originally Posted by Beerhunter

BTW, it is considered bad form to leave a rifle cocked like that.

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Noted.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I thought that the FR mark was a Pakistan mark. India was the place for gallons of thick paint and a bolt through the fore-end.

If you want the metalwork resurrected and the bolt fit/function/CHS tested and checked and put right just ask Brian at BDL in SC. He has the knowledge, skill and tools to refinish to UK MoiD spec and correct the faults.

THey cal all be brought back to life but the rear of the body (photo 3) looks like it's been ground out to within an inch of its life

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It has the (Ishapore?) screw in the fore end and FR on the butt stock, but shouldn't there be markings on some the metal parts to show a field repair? I have it almost completely disassembled on my work bench and have failed to find any rebuild marks. Then again, I don't know exactly what I'm looking for.

Hello CruciBill. Is there a chance of a cleaner shot of the bolt serial number? I believe it is a stamped number and not electric penned but my eyes aren't what they used to be. I can see that the bolt is "S" marked, which is a plus,what about the cocking piece?

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Originally Posted by SpikeDD

Hello CruciBill. Is there a chance of a cleaner shot of the bolt serial number? I believe it is a stamped number and not electric penned but my eyes aren't what they used to be. I can see that the bolt is "S" marked, which is a plus,what about the cocking piece?

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When I get home I'll try to post some better photos of the bolt serial number. What would you like to see from the cocking piece? As I posted earlier I have it mostly disassembled so I could probably get quality shots of most everything. Thanks.

From what I can see the bolt is stamped serial matching but it is definitely a different font. Not sure of the use of different or same fonts on enfields.

If we fit or just renumber a new or an old bolt in the Armourers shop we just use the number stamps that are on the bench. We don't worry too much about whether they match what IS there or what someone else used somewhere else, believe me.......

I'll stick my neck out and say the bolt is original to the rifle. It looks perfectly fine to me. It's too bad the metal has been so horribly polished and blued. It could be fixed by stripping it down, a light dip in acid dilute to remove the bluing and and then bead blast, Parkerize and paint/bake with Suncorite 259.

The turkeys who polish the metal and french polish the wood of their rifles really need a reality check. Some would use rather stronger language than that....... Especially if it's being done to an (ex-) Infantry battle rifle. They obviously haven't had to hold one or use it with sweaty hands and face when it's dripping wet with rain........

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Originally Posted by CruciBill

FR burned in the stock

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I have a 1944 Savage Enfield with the exact FR stamp in the exact same place on the stock. Only difference is that it also has the date "Dec 1944" and the initials of the Armourers who did the repairs. (one initial is BPD -- same as Brian Dick, which proves he is a Reincarnated Ordnance Lee Enfield Inspector -- "ROLEI"). This gun was manufactured in Feb 1944 and most likely was damaged after D-Day, hence the repairs in Dec '44. Yours may have had the same fate.

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Originally Posted by CruciBill

Refinish" was at the hands of some diabolical maniac.

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No words can describe the Bignorant whose misguided hands obliterated the patina of the wood on your stock -- he sanded off the history of the blood and guts that told the story of the valour of the courageous soldier that carried the Enfield into war and the stalwart integrity of the weapon that preserved our freedom from Hitler's evil. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to "unring the bell" and "fix" the stock -- it's ruined from a restoration perspective. Best you can do is shoot the hell out of the gun. My guess is that some day soon you will sell or trade it for a gun you will cherish.

Thanks for the insight. I still think I'm going to try to knock that poly down, if I can do so without damaging the wood any further. I can't help but wonder if the only "repair"(cough, cough), this rifle has had was stock replacement. I took near 20 different photos of any markings I could find and have yet to see a armourers repair mark. I suppose markings could be ground down or filled in with that heavy finish on the metal. Luckily the block S shows up everywhere.


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Originally Posted by CruciBill

Thanks for the insight. I still think I'm going to try to knock that poly down, if I can do so without damaging the wood any further.

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As has already been said you can't put back the age patina but removing the poly is fairly straight forward. Paint stripper and very fine wire wool works very well it gets off all of the crap but does not damage the wood surface, do NOT be tempted to sand any of the wood just take your time and you will end up with a poly free stock then once its dry you can start to refinish it with boiled linseed oil a little at a time, I have been told the old adage "once a day for a week, once a week for a month them once a month for a year". It's very satisfying to be able to rescue and restore some of the dignity to an old rifle it's what makes collecting really worth while.:cheers:

If you decide to strip the furniture, take Buccaneer's advice. Consider putting the original color back into the wood. See this thread for a pic:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope))
Savage originally used a red mahogany stain on their birch stocks.

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Originally Posted by Buccaneer

As has already been said you can't put back the age patina but removing the poly is fairly straight forward. Paint stripper and very fine wire wool works very well it gets off all of the crap but does not damage the wood surface, do NOT be tempted to sand any of the wood just take your time and you will end up with a poly free stock then once its dry you can start to refinish it with boiled linseed oil a little at a time, I have been told the old adage "once a day for a week, once a week for a month them once a month for a year". It's very satisfying to be able to rescue and restore some of the dignity to an old rifle it's what makes collecting really worth while.:cheers:

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Thanks for the input and sound advice. That sounds like the route to take.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

If you decide to strip the furniture, take Buccaneer's advice. Consider putting the original color back into the wood. See this thread for a pic:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope))
Savage originally used a red mahogany stain on their birch stocks.

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The finish on the rifle in that link would be great. Is there a specific brand of red mahogany stain to match the original or is it a matter of trial and error?

The trap that amateurs fall into isn't the actual use of fine sandpaper but the way they USE the fine sand paper - or wire wool now that I think about it. What they do is allow the paper or wire wool to run into the grooves, slots, screw holes etc etc of the wood. Then you're left with rounded edges when what you want are crisp, clean and clear square edges.

How many times do you see a reasonably well prepared fore-end, well oiled with linseed but where the enthusiastic amateur had made a decent job of the surface but rounded everything off. Ideally you only ever use sandpaper on a sanding block to prevent this but that's not really an option on rifle woodwork (mind you, you can on a Mk2 Bren butt that is flat and chunky). All that work and you've got to tell them that it's crap! How politely you word it is up to you of course - but you'll never get the square edges back again.

While on the subject of crap work or workmanship, ex Carlisle Armourer apprentices will tell you that in the practical rifle classroom under 'Paddy' Reilly and 'Joe' Duffield, they had a garbage bin marked 'FIRE-WOOD'. As you plodded your way through woodworking practice, fitting foreends, butts, making good, repairing, patching etc etc under their supervision, your work was all marked in stages of repair. If a patch, plug or repair was crap, you'd be told to cut it out and start again. Quite a simple job as a rule because you could just cut the crap work out and start again with a slightly bigger patch or plug or whatever. You know the sort of thing....., bad fit, uneven patch, not square, unevenly plugged screw hole sort of thing. But if your long laboured bit of work was beyond repair, you'd hear a dull clunk while you saw it being tossed into the garbage can marked fire-wood. Then you'd go back and start again. Only this time you'd be under even closer supervision.

My work kept many houses warm!

Well said Peter Laidler. Though I am not a complete stranger to hand finishing wood, I have no experience with firearm repair/refurbishing/restoring. It occurs to me that sometimes the best course of action is none at all. A previous caretaker of this rifle should maybe have done nothing, thereby letting the rifle tell it's own story. I'm going to undo a bit of what's been done and then determine where to go from there. Hopefully no fire-wood.

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Originally Posted by CruciBill

Is there a specific brand of red mahogany stain to match the original or is it a matter of trial and error?

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Bill, this is a very good question that doesn't have an simple answer. Here's how I'd proceed:

1) Use varnish remover on the polyurethane coat. Remove the resulting gunk first with a course rag/old towel. Then remove remaining residue with fine wire/steel wool. Then remove any of the wax that might remain in the pores of the wood (from the varnish remover) with mineral spirits or turpentine. Then let dry.

2) You have two choices for staining: an alcohol/water based dye (which often gives a much more even coat -- I'd try this given the uneven woodwork from the earlier sanding). Once dry, then you could use a light coat of oil based stain. For the alcohol/water based dye, try Constantines (Constantines Wood Center - Woodworking Supplies and Tools - Fort Lauderdale, FL ). For the oil based stain, try MinWax Red Mahogany (available at most home & hardware stores). The entire staining process is somewhat trial and error because each gun's wood acts a little differently so go lightly as you interact with the finish.

3) Once finished with the staining, wait a day for the oil to set, then go over with BLO until there are no dull areas (which are the places the wood is dry and soaking up the oil). BLO is best used as a sealer, not a finish. Here's where I depart from traditional advice (which is based on wartime field conditions): Be sure to wipe all excess BLO off the surface -- if you let it build up as a surface coat, it will eventually turn yellow, then brown, then muddy. (Believe me on this one -- I, and my father before me, have restored antique weapons since the 1930s -- BLO oxides oxidizes over time, and RLO is worse). The last coat of BLO should be rubbed hard with a soft cloth, which heats the surface, further stabilizing the chemistry of the BLO, leaving a burnished "hand rubbed" finish. To prevent the BLO from oxidizing, I then put a very light coat of tung oil over it. (This was the recommended procedure for M-1s because tung oil is more durable, doesn't oxidize, is more moisture resistant, and has better anti-fungal properties.) The other finish option I like to use is to apply a light coat of wax; my preference is British museum wax (brand name: Briwax, which available at Ace Hardware).

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

The trap that amateurs fall into isn't the actual use of fine sandpaper but the way they USE the fine sand paper - or wire wool

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Captain Laidler is spot-on with this advice. I might further add that sandpaper (because it actually cuts grooves to remove wood like a tiny chisel) should only be used for wood removal, not for removing dirt, old finish, grimy BLO, etc. Fine grades of wire/steel wool is the proper tool to use to prevent destruction of patina (because wire/steel wool acts as a ultra-fine scraper, not a chisel, it can thus be controlled with careful repetition and hand pressure).

Good luck.

Just a note:
If you want to see the estimated month your Savage was built, here is the link:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1943 No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (Mfg by Savage))

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

Bill, this is a very good question that doesn't have an simple answer. Here's how I'd proceed:

1) Use varnish remover on the polyurethane coat. Remove the resulting gunk first with a course rag/old towel. Then remove remaining residue with fine wire/steel wool. Then remove any of the wax that might remain in the pores of the wood (from the varnish remover) with mineral spirits or turpentine. Then let dry.

2) You have two choices for staining: an alcohol/water based dye (which often gives a much more even coat -- I'd try this given the uneven woodwork from the earlier sanding). Once dry, then you could use a light coat of oil based stain. For the alcohol/water based dye, try Constantines (Constantines Wood Center - Woodworking Supplies and Tools - Fort Lauderdale, FL ). For the oil based stain, try MinWax Red Mahogany (available at most home & hardware stores). The entire staining process is somewhat trial and error because each gun's wood acts a little differently so go lightly as you interact with the finish.

3) Once finished with the staining, wait a day for the oil to set, then go over with BLO until there are no dull areas (which are the places the wood is dry and soaking up the oil). BLO is best used as a sealer, not a finish. Here's where I depart from traditional advice (which is based on wartime field conditions): Be sure to wipe all excess BLO off the surface -- if you let it build up as a surface coat, it will eventually turn yellow, then brown, then muddy. (Believe me on this one -- I, and my father before me, have restored antique weapons since the 1930s -- BLO oxides oxidizes over time, and RLO is worse). The last coat of BLO should be rubbed hard with a soft cloth, which heats the surface, further stabilizing the chemistry of the BLO, leaving a burnished "hand rubbed" finish. To prevent the BLO from oxidizing, I then put a very light coat of tung oil over it. (This was the recommended procedure for M-1s because tung oil is more durable, doesn't oxidize, is more moisture resistant, and has better anti-fungal properties.) The other finish option I like to use is to apply a light coat of wax; my preference is British museum wax (brand name: Briwax, which available at Ace Hardware).


Captain Laidler is spot-on with this advice. I might further add that sandpaper (because it actually cuts grooves to remove wood like a tiny chisel) should only be used for wood removal, not for removing dirt, old finish, grimy BLO, etc. Fine grades of wire/steel wool is the proper tool to use to prevent destruction of patina (because wire/steel wool acts as a ultra-fine scraper, not a chisel, it can thus be controlled with careful repetition and hand pressure).

Good luck.

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Off to the hardware store tomorrow morning. I appreciate all the good advice.

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

Just a note:
If you want to see the estimated month your Savage was built, here is the link:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1943 No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (Mfg by Savage))

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So roughly June-July of 1943. Nice to know.

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Question. Is acetone interchangeable with mineral spirits and turpentine or would it be too aggressive?

Forget the Minwax and order some Chestnut Ridge military stock stain. They're located in Pennsylvania. It's alcohol based and gives the exact reddish color you're looking for.

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Originally Posted by CruciBill

Is acetone interchangeable with mineral spirits and turpentine or would it be too aggressive?

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Acetone melts many things and is different from the others. Mineral spirits and turpentine I think are to mix with paint and thin it more... I would just use something like 1850 furniture stripper to reduce the varnish and then rinse off. Don't leave the wood wet, use paper towel to dry and then easy dry it after. No fast heat or you'll warp it. You'd use acetone to remove the lot numbers painted on an ammo can.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Acetone melts many things and is different from the others.

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BAR is right on. Be careful using acetone -- it's fingernail polish remover and dissolve or melt a lot of things. Mineral spirits is the synthetic version of turpentine and dissolves the liquid wax that is an ingredient in many varish/paint removers to prevent evaporation while the chemicals dissolve paint. You don't want wax in the wood which will prevent the stain from penetrating. Turpentine will not raise the grain of the wood, nor warp it; but water will, as BAR warned.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Forget the Minwax and order some Chestnut Ridge military stock stain. They're located in Pennsylvania. It's alcohol based and gives the exact reddish color you're looking for.

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Take Brian's advice over mine -- he's a professional and I'm an amateur. Brian restores Enfields for a living and has years of experience; I trust him 100%; he's restoring a Long Branch sniper for me. You can't go wrong following his path.

[QUOTE=Brian Dick;330190]Forget the Minwax and order some Chestnut Ridge military stock stain.QUOTE]

Thank you. I looked them up last night after reading your reply.

I can't express my gratitude enough for all the quality advice I've received on this thread.

I bought some furniture striper, mineral spirits and 0000 steel wool. As soon as it warms up a bit I'll get busy in the garage. The striper instructions suggest a minimum working temperature of 65 degrees and here in S.E. Michigan we aren't forecast to reach that until this time next week.

Another 'fault' or mistake amateur stock finishers make is this....... Wet the tips of your fingers and wipe them vertically around the curvature, over the top and bottom of the butt and bottom of the fore-end (and handguards if you're so inclined). If it's smooth then all is well. But if you can feel ridges then that would mean marks taken off. I accept that it's a bit pedantic but those sorts of things were how the instructors marked our work. Ridges mean that sometime in the past the wood has been scraped or sanded without the due care it should have had and not made good afterwards. Not that I have ever had to actually give marks for anothers rifle woodworking/repair skills but have had to pass comment. But it's well known that all the old time Armourers - me included I'm ashamed to say - secretly 'judge' others work.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

secretly 'judge' others work.

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Not that we will mind you...but we're going to want to see it after.

I grew weary of waiting for the weather to cooperate so I could start working on the Enfield. So I put it back together and took it to an indoor range this morning.

The rifle works fine. Feeds, fires and ejects nicely. It even seems to hit near where I'm pointing. Once I found where to hold the sights it was no problem hitting a 5.5" target at 25 yds standing. I used a box of 174 gr hand loads that came with the rifle.

I have 3 boxes of 150 gr ammo ordered that should be here tomorrow. If it warms up outside I'll start refinishing the stock, if it doesn't, I may take it to the 100 yd outdoor range on Wednesday and see how it behaves with a bench and sand bags.

Don't forget that the sighting arrangement including the backsight adjustments and foresight adjustments for your No4 is wholly geared up for .303" Mk7 ball.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Don't forget that the sighting arrangement including the backsight adjustments and foresight adjustments for your No4 is wholly geared up for .303" Mk7 ball.

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Capt. Laidler,

I'm afraid I'm too much of a novice to understand the significance. Could you please elaborate?

Thank you,
Bill

Apologies for taking everything for granted Bill but the rifle was made to accurately shoot standard UK Military .303" ball ammo. It is only geared up to shoot that accurately. For this reason the sighting system is calibrated to this spec ammo. The forum is littered with tales of woe from forumers who are having great difficulty because their groups are falling all over the place and the range of foresight blades a) won't cater for the error and/or b) don't equate to the corrections that the books say. Sometimes different ammo won't even group properly.

I always suggest that to initially range test, accuracy test and then zero the rifle you get some standard surplus UK Military Mk7 ammo. THEN having done those tests, you can use other ammo knowing that any subsequent errors are caused by that ammo and you can make mental corrections.

Hope I've explained clearly enough. Other forumers please feel free to correct what I've said or add to it as ammo isn't my forte whereas range testing and zeroing is!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Military .303" ball ammo.

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Bill, this term might also be a bit confusing -- it certainly was to me coming from a black powder, muzzle loading frame of reference which made me think of a bullet as a "lead ball." I couldn't understand what "ball" meant, knowing that a Mk7 cartridge didn't have a "ball" for a bullet.ba

"Ball" in this case refers to the shape of the grains of powder, as differentiated from cordite, (which is more like a string)etc. If you google the Wikipedia definition this distinction will become more evident.

Cordite was originally used in the WWI time frame, and it burned hot and fast, causing many barrels to burn out near the chamber. Ball powder burned more evenly and a little slower, enabling full expansion during the time the bullet was traveling from chamber to muzzle. This resulted in a more even, and thus longer barrel wear. I don't know all the history of the ball ammo (Wikipedia will help), but by WWII, the conversion was pretty much complete. It is not likely if you are using modern ammo (including the Greek surplus) that you will encounter anything other than ball ammo.

The 150 grain projectiles will shoot low as compared to service Mk.7z. Your rifle is equipped with it's issue Mk.2 sight which doesn't allow fine adjustment so you'll just have to learn where to hold to get your groups on target.

Mind you, 'ball' to me and everyone else in the Military doesn't relate to the propellant. It's the name given to the projectile. Ball, as opposed to tracer, incendary, Armour piercing etc etc...

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

but by WWII, the conversion was pretty much complete.

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When I was a few years younger and lived in the Lake District (Cumbria) I was not far from a stretch of moorland that the Army used in WW2 for practice, armed with a metal detector and a shovel I spent many a summer day searching the moors for spent cases or something interesting, found everything from mortar fins to cap badges etc plus millions of .303 cases and quite a lot of live rounds.....

The live rounds were not always good condition so would break them open and extract the cordite....... the cases were dated 1941, 1942.

Great information. Thank you all.

I have done a bit of reading on the Enfield in the past 8 days and intend on doing much more. The Enfield Knowledge Library, and it's contributors, have been a fantastic resource. I may not always understand everything I'm reading, but I'm willing to work at this.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Mind you, 'ball' to me and everyone else in the Military doesn't relate to the propellant. It's the name given to the projectile. Ball, as opposed to tracer, incendary, Armour piercing etc etc...

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Peter, I'm with you 100%. Ball always meant to me the projectile, not the powder. This is where it really got confusing.

I was in the airport stuck between flights and thought I'd do a little more research on this, and every post I read created more confusion with so many opinions about what "ball" meant.

Bottom Line: from what I can see it means both projectile and powder. We all know what the projectile definition means. From a powder definition, apparently there are several standards: cordite (nitroglycerine based), flake, and ball/spherical (all smokeless). "Ball" apparently is the high standard for an even rate of burn. (perhaps this level of interconnection is why both bullets and powders are measured in "grains.")

To confuse the matter even further, after WWII, Winchester developed a way of reprocessing deteriorating surplus powder for civilian use, and trademarked the name "Ball" powder, which is now a name owned by Winchester/Olin and Hodgdon.

I'm not an authority on this thing, just trying to understand; and now I understand why I am still confused. C'est la vie!

Perhaps someone who has more of a chemistry background can chime in on this one (Vincent are you reading this?)

I have a thread in the Ammunition and Reloading forum asking about an 8# container of surplus M2 30-06 Ball powder my father offered me. I don't have it in my possession so I'm not certain about the labeling or included load card. It will be interesting to see if it's linked to the Winchester product.

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Originally Posted by CruciBill

It will be interesting to see if it's linked to the Winchester product.

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Bill, if you google "Ball powder Winchester/Olin Hodgdon" you may be able to find the connection you are looking for. Lots of info on the creation of the product and its evolution.

Just a couple of caveats on the use of steel wool, of any grade.

1. Always work WITH the grain.

2. Beware "lost" fibres caught on grain "run-outs" in the timber. little fibres of the steel wool will be "detached" by the woodwork, no matter how careful you are. If left in place, they will eventually RUST and start to leave nasty discolourations on your nice furniture, be it rifle or "domestic".

Get yourself as powerful a magnet as you can find (and handle easily) and wrap it in a couple of layers of soft cloth ("cheese-cloth" is ideal). Try those "super-magnets" the kids get from novelty shops or one from the back of an old "high-output" loudspeaker for bigger jobs.

Run this assembly LIGHTLY from one end of the timber to the other. At the end of each pass, inspect the cloth for "fibres" of fine, grey steel. Remove these from the cloth and repeat the exercise. Tedious? Yes, but better than watching strange purplish-brown stains appear on your carefully oiled woodwork.

Bruce, this whole

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

Just a couple of caveats on the use of steel wool, of any grade.

1. Always work WITH the grain.

2. Beware "lost" fibres caught on grain "run-outs" in the timber. little fibres of the steel wool will be "detached" by the woodwork, no matter how careful you are. If left in place, they will eventually RUST and start to leave nasty discolourations on your nice furniture, be it rifle or "domestic".

Get yourself as powerful a magnet as you can find (and handle easily) and wrap it in a couple of layers of soft cloth ("cheese-cloth" is ideal). Try those "super-magnets" the kids get from novelty shops or one from the back of an old "high-output" loudspeaker for bigger jobs.

Run this assembly LIGHTLY from one end of the timber to the other. At the end of each pass, inspect the cloth for "fibres" of fine, grey steel. Remove these from the cloth and repeat the exercise. Tedious? Yes, but better than watching strange purplish-brown stains appear on your carefully oiled woodwork.

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Bruce this is an excellent piece of advice. Highly recommended. I hadn't heard of the magnet idea -- thanks for passing it on.

Your observation of the nasty lost fibres is soooooo very true. This is why in wooden boat restoration steel wool is a no-no. In a salt environment only a day of exposure and the black marks of rusted metal on wood are evident. And they are extremely hard to remove, except with oxalic acid or intense sanding. Boating stores all sell bronze wool for this very reason -- bronze doesn't leave black marks.

In the same vein, I concoct a mixture of 50% bees wax 50% petroleum (mineral) jelly (a formula taken from the 1931 Enfield Armourer's manual) and coat the all wood where iron/steel contacts wood (drawers, barrel channel, butt plate screws, etc.) not only to prevent the black plague stain but to keep screws from rusting in the wood and becoming neigh on to impossible to remove years later. It also acts as a barrier to prevent gun oil from invading the wood and creating spongy oil rot (especially important in the drawers). (as a double entendre, this wax balm is great for furniture drawer slides, better than soap or candle wax).

Seaspriter,

Although the more modern Ball powder may cloud the issue, Ball ammunition always meant a plain jacketed (FMJ) projectile before there ever was a "ball" powder.

Good information on the concoction to do the wood/metal fitting parts. I normally use deer tallow, but this sounds like it would set up better.

Best,
Richard.

I agree wholly with Richard in thread 48. As the ADAC ammo catalogue lists it. Cartridges, Small-Arms, Ball, .303" Mk7 (or just Carts, SA Ball, .303" Mk7) and then Carts SA TRA; .303" Mk xxx or Carts SA, AP, .303" Mkxxxx and so on.

Let's not complicate things I say

Interesting aside heard from an old RAAF groundcrew / armourer:

When making up link for aerial guns (particularly the .303 Browning jobs fitted in most British-sourced WW2 aircraft), they had a handy little mnemonic:

TITS

Stands for: Tracer, Incendiary, Tracer, SOLID.

Better and certainly more memorable acronym than" TITB", especially for a young Air Force armourer.

:) That would be hard to forget!

I had several long lengths of belt from an unearthed WW5 fighter - don't know what sort but it had a Rolls Ropyce engine - and they were 1x ball, tracer incendary and ap, ball, trace and so on. But have to say, for a young Armourer, TITS sounds soooooooooo much easier to remember

Took her to the range today for the last time before starting the refinishing work.

I certainly have an awful lot of respect for anyone who can shoot accurately at 100+ yards with the 300/600 flip sight.

At 100 yds my "groups" were confined mainly to somewhere/anywhere within an 14" x 14" target. I had the sense to make sure none of the shots were so close to each other as to make counting the holes difficult.;)

I have a lot more practicing to do.

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Originally Posted by CruciBill

I certainly have an awful lot of respect for anyone who can shoot accurately at 100+ yards with the 300/600 flip sight.

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Depends on your age... That's just a matter of having better than our aging eyesight. I recall some pretty damn good groups from iron sights when we were all much younger...

Thanks Jim, I'm going to go with that.

Bill