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25 Attachment(s)
Wise Lite Arms semi-auto only Bren
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I get the gist of that Vince and a nice job. But that butt............... Remember I told you of the bucket marked 'FIRE-WOOD' in Mr Reilly's classroom - into which much of my work disappeared......? I would suggest that you invest in a new Mk4 butt. That one is past any hope of repair. Even the contours have been sanded away. And a Mk2 carrying handle too.
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3 Attachment(s)
Yes, Peter. I know the butt is in sad shape. Haven't been able to find a replacement so far.
I made the carrying handle. Best I could come up with.
Attachment 62518Attachment 62519Attachment 62520
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Didn't we see an ad for complete Mk3 gun butt assemblies on an earlier thread?
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:super: Found it. Thank you.
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in the picture showing the bolt, carrier and striker. the striker is not orientated the same way as the other parts. the thin bottom section should be toward the carrier and the top tombstone should be to the rear
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The pics were interesting for me, a total amateur when it comes to the US semi auto rebuilds. I can see now where on the US Semi's, with an extended striker you could fire the gun with the breech block forward but not quite locked.
But back to page 6(?) and locking shoulders. I have a feeling that the locking shoulders are not case hardened but are a hard tough material right through and on that basis you could dafely grind one a tad to suit. I say this as I have just put one to a grinder in a dark workshop and even well into the steel, the grinding colour hasn't changed. Yep....., I know it's not quite scientific or a lab test but to the experienced, it's a good rule of thumb.
If anyone does have a stack of locking shoulders, I'll say once again to ignore the size on them (if there is one!!!!!) and trust in the DTI. To measure them we had a small jig that you could mount a DTI onto. Then you slip the locking shoulder in LOCKING/BREECH BLOCK EDGE DOWNWARDS onto the surface of the jig and the bottom totally flat surface of the shoulder square-up against the rear edge. Hold there with finger and slide the DTI plunger across the flat REAR surface. This is the only way to get a correct reading of the actual length
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I've had a Wise Lite Mk I for many years, they do a good job with their rebuilds. A few minor differences from the Historic arms Bren's , but both work well in their own way.
Gary
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3 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter Laidler
I get the gist of that Vince and a nice job. But that butt............... Remember I told you of the bucket marked 'FIRE-WOOD' in Mr Reilly's classroom - into which much of my work disappeared......? I would suggest that you invest in a new Mk4 butt. That one is past any hope of repair. Even the contours have been sanded away. And a Mk2 carrying handle too.
My new butt arrived. :dancingbanana:
Attachment 62622Attachment 62623Attachment 62624
Now the grip looks tatty compared to the new butt. Guess I better start looking for a new one.
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That's better! Is it a US made repro? I ask because the comb along the top (the step between the small of the butt and the rear section) looks as if it's been smoother out a tad whereas they were usually a distinct change in shape. Or is it just me?
The last ones we were getting through in the system were very tight where the gun buffer part of the butt slide went into the butt. If you got a bit heavy handed and tried to 'persuade' the butt onto/over the last 4" long part of the gun buffer, the butts would split along the thin wall under the cocking handle slide cover. I was one of those tasked with investigating this after the first defect reports started to come in. Existing stocks had to be bored out under local arrangements and the supplier was required to 'up his game.....' for want of a better few words!
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How is the Wise Lite holding up ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Vincent
Please look at the first picture there is no buffer plate with this conversion is that a problem ? My Wes Lite semiauto is set up this way . Should it have the buffer plate ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter Laidler
The pics were interesting for me, a total amateur when it comes to the US semi auto rebuilds. I can see now where on the US Semi's, with an extended striker you could fire the gun with the breech block forward but not quite locked.
Absolutely right , Peter. I don't know how the professional builders addressed the problem or if they did. My solution was to reconfigure the top part of the striker so that if the bolt was not completely locked by the carrier the base of the striker would hit the carrier and the upper would not hit the firing pin. The striker and firing pin have to be meshed properly to make it work.
Joe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tr63
Please look at the first picture there is no buffer plate with this conversion is that a problem ? My Wes Lite semiauto is set up this way . Should it have the buffer plate ?
Never heard of a problem. The Wise Lite conversion uses the buffer tube for the striker spring, eliminating the buffer. Another type of conversion puts the striker spring on the return rod and keeps the original bolt buffer.
Do you need the buffer in semi at 30-40 rds/min ? Probably not. At full auto, 500 rds/min, it may be a different story.
Joe
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Thanks for the reply on the buffer plate on the Wise Lite .
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Joe H
Never heard of a problem. The Wise Lite conversion uses the buffer tube for the striker spring, eliminating the buffer. Another type of conversion puts the striker spring on the return rod and keeps the original bolt buffer.
Do you need the buffer in semi at 30-40 rds/min ? Probably not. At full auto, 500 rds/min, it may be a different story.
Joe
Joe, is the buffer there to address full auto battering? Or strictly to soften the blow for the shooter? I suspect even a semi auto may benefit from a longer service life to metal parts that are buffered. But acknowlege that a full auto firearm, like any support weapon, would benefit from buffering.
Can’t the buffer be retained AND a striker operating spring telescope into the buffer tube? Or is there just not enough room for both?
I ask because I am in the process of trying to alter my HA Bren into a striker spring that utilizes the spring tube instead of the original large diameter spring held within the body of the firearm between the striker and the rear face of the trigger frame.
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3 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AmEngRifles
Joe, is the buffer there to address full auto battering? Or strictly to soften the blow for the shooter? I suspect even a semi auto may benefit from a longer service life to metal parts that are buffered. But acknowlege that a full auto firearm, like any support weapon, would benefit from buffering.
Can’t the buffer be retained AND a striker operating spring telescope into the buffer tube? Or is there just not enough room for both?
I ask because I am in the process of trying to alter my HA Bren into a striker spring that utilizes the spring tube instead of the original large diameter spring held within the body of the firearm between the striker and the rear face of the trigger frame.
Amrifles,
Can't disagree with any of your comments about buffering.
I know of 4 different striker setups.
In Version 1 which I think is the Historic arms version and shown below as Bren Striker 1 the striker is powered by a large dia. spring that is compressed into a recess provided in the rear stock.
In Version 2 the striker spring is above the return spring and compresses into a tube in the area formerly housing the buffer spring.
In both 1 & 2 the breech block (bolt) buffer has been removed for the semi auto operation.
Version 3 uses a long small dia. spring on the return rod as the striker spring. In this version the buffer stays in place.
Version 4 is an excellent new version by "Mighty Lime" and is detailed in the link provided below.
In Version 1 & 2 as the bolt moves rearward it compresses both the striker and return spring on the rearward movement. The striker is cocked as the bolt moves to the rear. The return spring then pushes the bolt and carrier forward to the closed position.
Version 3 operation is somewhat different. As the bolt moves to the rear only the return spring is compressed. As the bolt and carrier move forward the striker spring is compressed and the striker is cocked.
Version 1 & 2 need adequate gas pressure to compress the original return spring plus the striker on the rearward motion under the gas pressure.
In Version 3 the striker spring is compressed by the return spring so that the return spring must be fully compressed and have adequate power to both return the bolt and carrier and cock the striker. Since in any striker semi the return spring cannot compress completely due to the length of the striker, a spacer equal to the length of the striker is often placed at the rear of the return spring to assure complete compression which is particularly important in Version 3.
I’ve built a couple of Version 3. It does take some tweaking to get the striker spring right. Both would work on gas setting 3 or 4 with no modification to the gas system. An original FA Bren would work reliably on #1 or #2.
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This info should help you with your project.
Joe
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Joe, thank you for the overview on the known alterations. It would seem that most of these systems are in deed a delicate balance of spring rates and gas delivery.
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Thanks for all of this info, the Bren is on the list for 2019.
Later 42rocker
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The striker spring issue is one of the stickiest problems for Bren builders & shooters !!!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
csmarcher
The striker spring issue is one of the stickiest problems for Bren builders & shooters !!!
I believe you will find from a mechanical design standpoint one of the secondary effects of even having a striker spring to compress in recoil is that in doing so you are actually getting a significant amount of additional recoil counter force over and above the (should have been accounted for) main recoil spring. A LOT can be expanded upon here, but what most people consider a buffer is merely used as a dead blow device as an expedient due to not having sufficient physical space to ideally let the full recoil forces run out on the springs......think Ultimax 100.....as would be ideal. Buffers have their own problems largely due to things like unbalanced coefficients of restitution and the like from using expedient materials (read cheap).
Using the added restorative value of a (well balanced) striker spring additionally is actually a pretty darn good way to deal with commonly excessive recoiling/dynamic parts velocities.
-TomH
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TactAdv, I appreciate what you are saying. For me, finding appropriately constructed springs in quantity and variety is not a trip to Home Depot. Unfortunately, many of us have to go by our wits alone and with local sourced products, which usually are cheap. If I had an engineering degree, I would probably be more discerning.
Of course, all this semi auto nonsense could be avoided if the GCA of 68 had not been implemented. :-)
In response to your last paragraph, I did find that the Mighty Lime Striker System is a very well thought out and balanced approach. I have installed one in a Project Guns Bren and it smoothed things out considerably.
