Another No4T.......

I may of mentioned Scotarms in a previous thread regarding the recent auction, I wasn't expecting to win a bid on one of the No4T,s but luck was on my side..... has some original finish underneath the black paint (its not suncorite too flakey) looks like something was ground off on left side of butt socket also and I,m guessing there was an England stamp there as I,m sure the other T had the England import stamp, no pics as the battery went dead but a few pics to go on with.

Just wonder about the cheek piece is this the real McCoy or a copy ? took the fore-end off and retains its original barrel marked correct etc, barrel cleaned up also so on the look out for scope 24635 and bracket if its marked (V38053)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gyhdbif6-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...mptcn1er-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...li9bcldh-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...voh11v5o-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5ffhllwc-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...hblnriwd-1.jpg

Can you guess what it is yet ??

Though this might not help you, but I need to admit that I really like this rifle Geoff! Congratulations to it!

Thanks Promo, just not sure if its a badly stamped Z on the butt or an upside down 7 :D, but think its the former I,ll get some better pics when camera charges up, I remembered the mark in the auction and did make a note but thought it was on the other rifle.....

Only things I can see are the collar around the front trigger guard thread is a bit oval or squashed don't know why as its original barrel still on there unless someone has repaired the thread in the past as no other signs of abuse

The barrel cleaned up, but looks like a bit of pitting around one of the lands just after the throat but is something you would miss if not looking for it (if it makes sense) butt is correct for the rifle as is everything else.

Very nice!

Just before I go any further some may of noticed the Z on the butt in the previous pics, so I,m treating it as a Z / ZF rifle......... Disclaimer at bottom of page.

I haven't got the Armourers gauges etc to verify or find the fault, so I looked at previous threads/posts etc and contacted Peter who simplified the matter in a brief breakdown of the major failures, so after checking the lugs on the bolt, shoulders on the body, body wear (only by feel etc and with a slave bolt) and CHS all seemed ok, I would say some play in the bolt guide but nothing more excessive than my other No4's .... an old thread (see link at end of page ), I checked the rifle (unloaded of course) for a check Peter mentions below.

" There was a reject gauge for this but the acid test used by the In-Inspectors was to hold the rifle downwards, vertically and let the cocking piece rest on the sear......... then squeeze the first pull of the trigger (until it gets to the second pull). The bolt should not move up and down unduly. It's that ambiguous word again. What's unduly to one isn't particularly unduly to another so the reject gauge would come into play. Add to this the fact that a sloppy bolt will mean that you won't be able to get a good, crisp, consistent 2nd pull-off. That is an immediate failure on a No4T."

If unduly means a slight movement then all is well....., the magazine that come with it was not the best and not matched, there was excessive play and rounds were not feeding or being picked up so swapped it for another, that side now works fine, the rest was a visual and took the fore -end off for a look and all seemed well (still original grease there and its staying there), I mentioned the trigger guard screw thread collar, but it didn't look as bad as I first thought the thread well there was play with the screw more than Unduly ..... have yet to check it with another screw so its a maybe, barrel cleaned again no bore gauges (not with me) the acid test is on the range so I,m told.

Probably a list as long as your arm regarding faults etc so I,m not saying I,ve checked everything here but just the basics of most rifles I buy and prepared to shoot.

just a few pics with the Fore-end off,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t6whlt6m-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...slj0ywnr-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...j8gr3k0d-1.jpg

This is the part I expect fowl play or removal of the England import stamp ??

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...09iatrdg-1.jpg


So with a handful of downloaded ammo went to range this morning, also loaded up some casts which I had bought when at Brum and was flush at the time:D, the scope is one I purchased recently on ebay, it was just to test the rifle,

After this it was a bit of an eye opener and I thought oh ***t,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bxpszkez-1.jpg

Was expecting better but these were the cast bullets so they were put aside and loaded my normal ones....

Top tip of the day make sure the thumb screws are tight, after that and a few sighters and scope adjusted was happy with the groups (Left side) and one flyer,

Rifle shot flawlessly (even with me behind it)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wb1pa3f4-1.jpg


Thought it was a good opportunity for family photo,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pjljndjc-1.jpg

and last but not least thought I,d toss this grenade in, Z or 7 ????

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...iluimwls-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4l4ajcq5-1.jpg


So the need for a Disclamer here, As I said I,m treating it as ZF marked rifle, I checked the very basics and I was happy to shoot it, anyone with a ZF rifle than proceed with caution, Armourers never stamped or painted ZF because they were bored its there for a reason... so be warned.

a thread from sometime back regarding the ZF.

marking on Enfields?

I reckon it's a 7

The few No.4T's I've seen marked "Z" or "ZF" were done with paint. Best to be on the safe side though.

I'm with Rob. I reckon it's a 7, but proceeding with caution won't hurt you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

but proceeding with caution won't hurt you.

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Its stopped a few pregnancies in the past

Rotate your photo 180 degrees. It is clearly a 7 not a "Zed" (being British it would not be a "Zee" ;-) The ding at the bottom of the 7 would not haveobliterated the bottom leg of a "Z".

We had a pot of yellow paint to paint a big yellow Z on the butt.

Thanks Peter, as I,ve never seen a big yellow Z or only a few pics of stamped ZF before I proceeded with caution..... better safe than sorry.

Its what was on the righthand side thats been removed is the biggest puzzle, the pic doesn't really give the detail but Its had some material removed, initial thought and still is, is its the England import stamp.

Just happy to give it a good home.....

I think it is a 7

Its an old thread but it does have an happy ending, it was always in the balance regarding the Mark on the butt although I was certain it was a 7 but was always cautious, after searching the internet for something related to No4T's I came across a rifle that I can only guess was in the same rack at some point as mine, the rifle has the butt marked in the same place with an upside 5....... I believe its sold or is pending, its one of the Business's of a member here.

I have contacted him to see if he can shed any light on the rifle or knows anything of its past, a long shot but worth a try.

The one I sold was marked in a similar way, but with a number 5

Thanks Simon, guess it was in the same rack at some point, obvious there was at least 7 wonder what the total was ?

Like two peas in a pod

The normal issue scale was 8 No.4 (T) rifles per infantry battalion. More for commando and airborne units and fewer for armoured unit.

I'm not sure that an Armoured Regiment would have a scale of issue of No4T's. And certainly not when it came to the L42/L96 era. An Armoured Regiment is part of an Infantry Brigade/Division or an Armoured Brigade/Division. By definition, it'd be the Infantry part of the Brigade/Division that would have them. Only based on my limited experience of course

Aye, tis but a "7". Notice the slight curve in the longer bit; that's not found in Zeds.