Hi, could anyone give me any information on this de activated slr ive just bought, i onow its a lithgow and i know it was made in 1964. But any other information would be gratefully appreciated
AD6418333
Thanks
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Hi, could anyone give me any information on this de activated slr ive just bought, i onow its a lithgow and i know it was made in 1964. But any other information would be gratefully appreciated
AD6418333
Thanks
Pictures are always helpful if you have any;)
According to Skennertons book this serial shows as part of batch AD6417917 - AD6418346 supplied to Malaya. As Gil says pics would be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianc
Hi thanks for the quick replies ill to get some pictures up ,i think its got Slazenger fore-grips & small wooden butt if that helps
Made in Australia 19 1964, supplied to the Govt of Malaya in the same year. Sold off by them, deactivated in XXXX (see date on rifle or cert). Would be helpfulk if you were a bit more specific about what else do you need to know?
Hi peter thanks for that im just trying to find out as much as i can on it ,also i was going to ask about the book i assume you wrote the slr Australia's fal ,are there any about that i could buy
Hi sorry peter my mistake Skennerton wrote the book ,but i would still be great-full if someone could tell me where i might get one thx
My recommendation is Jeremy Tenniswood Militaria in Colchester
email: info@militaria.co.uk
Telephone: +44 (0)1206 368787
or:
Selous Books
40 Station St.
Aldershot
Hampshire GU11 1HT
England
Hope that helps
Gil
Hi gill i will give them a ring thx ade
Hi Adrian,
We would be interested to see pictures, hope yours is a good clean example. Most of the new spec (welded up) deactivated L1A1's on the UK market are ex Malaysian these days.
Most in poor condition.
I bought AD6417530 for £250 a couple of years ago (came in miss matched Brit/Aussie cracked and useless woodwork and the odd patch of rust pitting, looked like it had been used as a bloody club! ....... purely for workshop use, as a rifle to check fit restored woodwork to. It still sits in the corner of my workshop gathering dust....out of a job since the woodwork dried up.
I have entertained the idea of turning it into a facsimile of a Vietnam war break rifle to hang on the wall in my gunroom alongside my cutaway and other L1's, I have a wealth of original "Bitch" images collected, plus a straight 30rd magazine and L1A2 selector put aside for the project....... but, being the eternal L1A1 fan, I just can't bring myself to start cutting it about!!
If I don't, it will eventually turn into a stripped hulk as I rob it for usable parts, rear sight, top cover, rats tail etc What to do...
What do you mean by a Vietnam war break rifle........ and cutting it about? I was with 3 Inf Bn's on and off and we never had cut-about rifles. Just bog standard L1A1's and 2's.
Some were camo painted but the general Inf blokes used standard kit. So said, there were rifles used by 'others' with cut short barrels but I never saw one and in any case you were very limited as to just how far you could cut the barrel short. That's because, using standard 7.62mm NATO ammo, cutting past a certain critical length, the operating gas, as all gas does, takes the line of lease resistance and............ anyway, it fails to re-cock! That's why when trials were undertaken to supply 'short' rifles to Malaya, they had to compromise with a short flash eliminator.
MUCH more to it than that of course but shortening barrels and the effects of flash eliminating/eliminators was a regular feature of the weapons design courses at RMCS
Evening Peter, its the so called ASAS Bitch/Break rifle that I will try to re-create, all seem to be a bit different, some with short barrels, some more modestly converted with simple cut back FE's, pistol grips added to the forend and L2A1 selectors/short pistol grip trigger plungers to allow full auto plus the straight 30rd magazine..
Add a camo paint job and bobs your uncle... A question you might be able to answer Peter, do you know what weapon camo colours were used in general at that time?
Don't know about the camo paint but black and olive/drab green were the standards. I have seen an L1A1 pistol grip fitted to a set of handguards but only in pictures and not in the flesh. BUT, quite how a pistol grip mounted through a set of wooden handguards with one screw will support a rock and roll L1A1 is a bit of a mystery to me. Even more so after having fired quite a few rock and roll L1A1's and L2A1's.
Annanuvverfing too..... Even if you had a rounded support plate inside the radiussed bottom section of the handguards, how do you get inside to screw the grip screw up tight......... when the handguards are fixed to the rifle. I suppose you could drill out the threaded insert and screw in from the bottom but you're getting into quite technical water now.
A similar set of circumstances occurred when the trials section were trying to design and fit fit arctic sling attachments to the L1A1 handguards. Difficult..... because the internal fixtures would pull through the wood and later plastic h/g's. Only solved with a purpose made band and clamp and hook affair was invented/suggested by a Royal Marine Armourer who's still with us, living in Plymouth! Hi Steve.....
Hi mrclark 303
Yes you are correct about the condition of the paper weight lol ,the wood isnt the best and theres pitting under the pistol grip and also on the return spring tube and the serial number is nearly worn away ,but i was desperate to get one and this one was available at the time . Thats why i was trying to find out as much as i could about it ,i cant seem to find a copy of the slr book anywhere as i think it tells you what furniture was on it when it was sold ,but I'm very grateful to peter for telling me who it was sold too .
---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------
Peter when i was in basic at lichfield one of the corporals in my sections a (Stafford) had a wooden pistol grip on his for-grip held on with a large hose clamp he also used a lmg mag with it
I have just such a piece, re- created by our very own tankie of this parish, pics when I get a chance..Quote:
Originally Posted by adrianc
I Thank You!............:lol:
Large hose clamp……… jeeeeeees…………, where do they find them? What else can I say except that I doubt it'd last more than 5 mts once the muck hit the fan. Or 2mts on a bad day!
Pete, I Modified a PLASTIC P.G & it was fitted around PLASTIC H.G's. They were used exactly like this in Northern Ireland by 3 Para. That is where I first saw them, when I was attached to the Battalion Myself. As you know, there are certain 'Fad's' that occur within different regiments/ Battalions. Who like to come up with ideas that raise their heads that are not quite 'Official'!.......:madsmile: This get's seen by some guys from another regiment & thought, 'That's a good idea, Im going to copy that'......:D And so the myth/ idea/ modification/ etc perpetuats. a typical one was stowage baskets on the rear of Ferret Scout Cars. NO official plans/ drawings/ regs etc passed. But almost every ferret in every unit had one made in the L.A.Ds & fitted. The Ferret was a very small recce armoured car, for thos who are not familiar with them. And space is VERY restricted inside. When you are carrying personel weapons, mags, food, maps, radio sets, sleeping bags, Field stores, etc, etc. You cans see why this situation occurred. L1 Bayonets were another 'Idea' that I was asked to do. IE: Cut the pommel off & fit an L7A2 GPMG plastic carrying handle on the Tang. All held in place with Araldite Glue. Hey presto! A 'Fighting Knife'!........:ugh: Rubbish in my Eye's, But that's what some of my Mates wanted. So.............'Thank's for the Beers Chaps' !........:cheers:
It's the old saying that goes something like '…….. give a man a hacksaw and a hammer and anything is possible'. The problem - if it ever is one - is that years hence, these little things become hard and fast 'official' facts. Some things become demi official or receive tacit approval. Things such as the water bottle carrier wired onto the side of the GPMG/L7 guns to carry a loose belt of ammo. Reliable, less bulky than the box, can't(?) be damaged by jungle and was a well liked idea.
Off at a tangent a bit….. The belt box that was the official way of carrying a loose belt of 50 rounds was a UK Military idea of the mid 60's or so on which we once again had to pay a sort of reverse royalties fee to FN (like the top mounted butt sling swivel…..). And guess what FN did with the idea……….? Yep, incorporated it into their own design, just like the top mounted butt sling swivel. But fair do's, they did forget the fee that they'd earlier imposed.
Back to the hand guard fitted pistol grip idea. When the trials people at Warminster, Woolwich and Shrivenham got hold of it, it it subject to months of user, scientific and mechanical trials. You can bet your bottom dollar that when it came to the mechanical integrity of such a modification, with clock and anti-clockwise forces and loads against the stress loads of wood or polymer handguards, it'd fail at the first hurdle. I don't know of course as that part never affected me but I was called in to ITDU for some trials (the Mini gun and GPMG barrel nut trials being ones that REALLY stands out………) but they were pretty harsh and uncompromising. But give a bloke a hammer and a hacksaw and a jubilee clip and……….
Jeeeeeeees, it's sooooooooo hot here in SC. How did I ever stand this heat and humidity in Oz and Malaya?
Jeeeez spellin again Peter:lol::lol:
Attachment 63800Attachment 63801On the subject of deacs....here is another ex NZ example back from the grave, it came to me in a small box with no furniture and a few other small parts missing ..... The finish was very worn indeed, some patches of corrosion, and more than the odd dent in the top cover.
Top cover, recoil springs and hammer strut replaced, restored wood fitted and a repaint..... shes a good looking wall hanger again!
You ought to find a small firm locally that will acid dip down to white metal/steel and chemically black the steel parts. Looks like new and FAR better/tougher than any paint. Not as robust as phosphate and hard bake spirit based paint of course but much more robust and resilient to sticky hands and fingers.
Saw a big load of refurbished Mk2 Brens done in it recently. Looked like new!
Nice looking rifle again...Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Cheers guys,
Good point Peter, I will look into polyphosphate finishing in the future, sounds interesting.
Thing is, I was a professional refinisher for 20+ years, so try to keep the whole possess from start to finish in house, on the grounds of cost .... and professional pride!
I employ a system utilising very careful preparation and cleaning, a black single pack primer and an excellent quality thinned out two pack matt black. This is then hand polished to a semi matt sheen, roughly approximating the original factory oil black finish (found on British rifles, I know this a Lithgow, but hay ho). The result is extremely hard wearing with excellent heat resistance, at least plenty good enough for my deac rebuilds and my live L1A1's!
Great looking rifle, it looks like a post 1970 finished rifle with the later Lithgow paint over phosphating finish
thanks for the feedback guys, I do enjoy working on these fine riles, getting very hard to find suitable L1A1's to rebuild now though as their value rockets up, even for really rough old spec deac examples. A 1964 BSA
is next into the workshop.
The factory finish wasn't oil black but hard baked at high temp SUNKORITE over phosphate. I can't understand why noone has started decanting sunkorite into large useable aerosol cans. Make sure that it's REALLY well shaken/stirred first though. I had some cans done locally a couple of years ago and it seemed OK. We also had some sunkorite golden yellow done the same (for local application on BFA's). It lasts a couple of weeks on BFA's but to be fair, they do tend to get hot on GPMG's
How did you get the furniture to clean up so nicely???Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Morning Peter,
Interesting that one, I can only assume the British rifles left the factory with different finishes at different dates. I am probably using the the wrong term in "oil blacking", so lets say a very thin chemically etched finish seems to be what they left the factory in.
I base this purely on my own observations, so I could well be wrong, but the current crop of Straight pull L1A1's coming out of Suffolk Rifles for instance have the thin worn chemical grey/ black finish on the receivers and TMH (the parts kits have their origin in the sold off War Reserve rifles I believe), this finish is not newly applied and not Lithgow type parkarising ..... nether is it a sunkorite paint finish.
My cutaway BSA L1A1, also appears to have the very same thin black/gray chemical finish, again without sunkorite.
I assumed (probably wrongly) that the Sunkorite was applied during base workshop refurbishment ??
Quote:
Originally Posted by enbloc8
Morning, it all goes down to what I have to start with really, everyone seems to hit wood restoration from a different angle, this is the general system I use, or elements of it depending how far gone the wood is.
On this particular occasion, the for-end parts were from my spares box (after checking for the usual cracks) they required adjusting on my workshop L1A1 deac to ensure both half's perfectly mate on the rifle, there is usually a big difference between them in fit to start with!
When everything has been check fitted to my satisfaction, I carefully clean the woodwork, steam out light dents, then a light sand if necessary (retaining original manufacture markings) with 180 then 400 grade Mirka ambanet pads and a soft block, moving on to wet then finally dry 3M red scotchbrites to remove any dirt from the grain of the wood and allow the oil to evenly penetrate the woodwork.
Then oil with a 50% mix of Raw linseed and white spirit, this is allowed to fully draw in before numerous coats of neat raw linseed over a couple of days. When this has finally stopped being absorbed, the excess is removed and the wood work buffed with a micro fibre cloth to bring out a lovely semi matt shine.
This is the system that works for me anyway, I am sure there are better ways, but it works!