US Soldier taking 2 Prisoners.
Frank
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US Soldier taking 2 Prisoners.
Frank
With one of their own pistols no less...
I think that is referred to as "adding insult to injury"??Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Or possibly acknowledging that the P38 is a better pistol than the 1911.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield303t
I'm pretty sure that's a Luger.
It´s a P08 (commonly called a `Luger´ in foreign parts). And the two `prisoners´ look as though they´re well pleased with their fate.
Sorry my bad
And that would be how?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
The P38 doesn´t have a Browning system barrel that flops down and is then only held in place with a bushing. The P38 (like the P08) recoil is straight back in line with the shot fired. This is in accordance with the US Army Beretta and the new Russian Arsenal Strike One. I realise that the 1911 can be deadly accurate (and most people are able to achieve better groups than I can with my P08), but it´s a matter of personal preference and personally, I don´t like the Browning system.
I personally like the hole a .45 makes ;) There is no replacement for displacement :cool:
Amen to that! The only thing the P38 has going for it is double action, and it's my bedroom gun because of it... my wife can pick it up and just pull the trigger like a revolver. IMO there is no better round than .45 ACP... if I'm ever scared I reach for my 1911A1.
Take it from me, there's only so many pistols in any TO&E or Load and Org table, the guys will pick up a pistol wherever and our only demand was they run it by the armorers at some soon point to make sure it was safe to use. Weapons do get booby trapped...
Both are fine pistols and I wouldn't hesitate to carry either but the P38 is way more complicated then a 1911 to breakdown and has a de-cocker which makes sense since it shoots the wussy 9mm...;)
For me, the irony to all this praise for the .45 1911 and defaming of the 9mm is that my father, a WWII veteran (joined up in 1939) had no kind words for the 1911 - or any automatic for that matter, and called them 'unreliable'. He always preferred .38 revolvers.
All in jest, nobody here would be willing take a 9mm to his body. I carry a .380 mouse gun 99% of the time because I have yet to met anyone willing to take one of those either, that and they don't make mouse guns in .45acp....:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
Not a 1911, but there's your mouse gun in .45... XD Mod.2 3.3 Sub-Compact .45ACP Concealed Carry PistolQuote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Yes, in general autos are not as totally dependable as revolvers. When a non-gun person asks me what he or she should have, I always recommend a .38 Special wheel gun... no safety to worry about, just pull the trigger. If you need more than six shots you are in the wrong place. But the 1911? Never fails. And it is a man-stopper for sure. I love that gun, and it will shoot your eye out at 50 feet.
Nah, that's a full size duty pistol compared to this. ;)
Attachment 63252
Awww, look at the lil teeny tiny toy pistol, ain't it cute.:rofl: Better than nothing I reckon. :D:thup:
What? it even has a laser.!! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
This is obviously a staged photograph. I'm sure both the photographer and the GI were demonstrating the irony of having captured both the Germans and their weapons. I'm sure that this photograph was intended to be far more humorous when it was taken than we, 70 years later, are perceiving it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about this, but, as an officer in the U.S. Navy (and my father before me in the Pacific theatre) that actually had the 1911 strapped on his side in combat, I can attest, along with millions of other users, there is no finer weapon you'd want as a partner for protection. My father, upon returning from Okinawa and Iwo Jima, took only one weapon back -- his 1911 Colt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
In the original tests from 1911 (before WWI) this weapon fired 6000 rounds without a failure -- that's why it has been in service for so long. Plus, it fires 7 rounds, not just 6 from a revolver; reloads in mere seconds, and packs a punch.
John Browning was arguably the best automatic weapon designer that has ever lived. Everything from the 1903 or 1911 pistol, the BAR, the MaDeuce, or the A-5 shotgun to name a few, are the most reliable rapid fire designs ever produced. Even my little Colt Woodsman 22 is a superb work of art.
Again, that was his opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
Personally, I put my trust in a 9mm Browning High Power as I have done for decades.
---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
I agree on both points. The photo has all the earmarks of staging for the camera. The MP has no webbing on for a start and the look on the two prisoners faces suggest that they may have been promised hot (real) coffee ant it was their fifth or sixth take before the photographer was happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaspriter
Browning was indeed a genius.
Good observations Paul. I'll have you on my intelligence team any time!:thup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
`Tis the age-old .45 / 9 Para controversy all over again. A bit like Sunni / Shiite or Prod / Catholic or beer v. wine drinkers. Just to fuel the fire: there´s more 9mm sold worldwide annually than .45 together with all the other handgun calibres put together! (But I do like to watch a .45 round floating down the range in the sunlight)
I am not saying the 1911 is a bad gun, it is certainly one of the most iconic pistols in existence, and if you were to take someone who knows nothing about guns, they might be able to recognize a 1911, Luger and maybe a C96 (or at least the names).
As far as it goes I really don't care what pistol I am issued provided it can shoot its rounds downrange reliably. Caliber doesn't matter too much, I remember reading a story about a cop who put 6rds of .45 into a guy at point blank range and it didn't kill him, now the cop carries a 9mm with as many rounds as possible.
Just as far as designs go if John Browning had perfected the handgun at the 1911, why did continue to design handguns and carry on to design the Hi-Power? Which is my choice handgun at the moment for a combat pistol. Personally I wish Mannlicher had been born a little later so he would have had more time to play with smokeless powder, I would have loved to see the results of that.
The process of invention is compulsive in the inventor; Browning is known as the most prolific of weapons designers. Invention was a major theme in the culture of the time. Just look at Thomas Edison, a contemporary of Browning, who filed a patent on the average of every 21 days for the 65 years he was inventing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
I suspect John Moses Browning died with a number of inventions in his head, much like Edison, who said: "I would like to live about 300 years, I think I have IDEAS enough to keep me busy that long."
A 45 ACP hollow point will blow a hole on the backside you can stuff your fist into. It's a dangerous round. The cop whose 45 would not take someone down probably was dealing with a crazed, drug addicted maniac -- even a 30-06 wouldn't take him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
Most people are surprised to learn that the most deadly round (in non-war situations) is the .22, which has been attributed to have killed more people than all other rounds combined. It is the weapon most found causing deaths in domestic disputes. While the first round might not take down a victim, several rapid-fire rounds can do a massive amount of damage. In the words of Ernest Hemingway (1938):
".....buy .... a .22 caliber Colt automatic pistol, Woodsman model, with a five-inch barrel and a box of shells...... get lubricated hollow points to avoid jams and to ensure a nice expansion on the bullet..... get several boxes and practice a little...
"Now standing in one corner of a boxing ring with a .22 caliber Colt automatic pistol, shooting a bullet weighing only 40 grains and with a striking energy of 51 foot pounds at 25 feet from the muzzle, I will guarantee to kill either [boxer] Gene [Tunney] or Joe Louis before they get to me from the opposite corner. This is the smallest caliber pistol cartridge made; but it is also one of the most accurate and easy to hit with, since the pistol has no recoil. I have killed many horses with it, cripples and bear baits, with a single shot, and what will kill a horse will kill a man. I have hit six dueling silhouettes in the head with it at regulation distance in five seconds. It was this type of pistol that Millen boys’ colleague, Abe Faber, did all his killings with. Yet this same pistol bullet fired at point blank range will not dent a grizzly’s skull, and to shoot a grizzly with a .22 caliber pistol would simply be one way of committing suicide." --- Hemingway on Hunting
For decades until after WWII, the standard police pistol was .32 or .38. Even the flamboyant General George Patton, in addition to his pearl gripped Colt .45s, carried a 1908 Colt .38 Pocket Hammerless ACP into battle (some authorities say it was a 1903 .32). He was an expert marksman who wanted the most reliable, fast-firing, accurate, rapidly accessible gun he could lay his hands on.
My criteria for a defensive weapon (in order of importance): 1) how easy to handle? 2) how reliable? 3) how accurate? 4) how fast? 5) how powerful?
... and (so I´ve been told) a spent .22 round is impossible to forensically attribute to the weapon it was fired from. Thus, a .22LR firearm must be an ideal murder weapon.
First, I doubt the story of six hits with a .45 unless they were all below the elbow and knee. There is no way a center mass hit would not put him down. No way. NO WAY!
Second, Browning was working for FN and Europe used the 9mm. He was giving the customer what it wanted. The 9mm a fu*king hole-puncher, if it doesn't hit a vital organ it just leaves a pencil-sized streak through tissue, in one side and out the other.
Third, we dropped the .45 in favor of Europe's 9mm for political reasons. They agreed to accept 7.62 NATO for rifles, we agreed to take the 9. It's a crap round.
I'll stick with my 1911, you take your Hi-Power, Glock, P38, Beretta. And what's the trend to 10mm all about? A lousy compromise between caliber and capacity.
Personally I am pretty happy with the 9mm Parabelium/.38 caliber rounds they do everything I could ever want and realistically if I am using that it is because my rifle isn't working for some reason.
Why one cop carries 145 rounds of ammo on the job
Certainly an interesting story. But this does not indict the .45, it just highlights an anomaly. Consider the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
"The Firearms and Tactics Section of the NYPD Police Academy produces an
annual report on firearm discharges from the previous year. With a uniformed force
of approximately 37,000 officers, it is unlikely, statistically, that an officer will ever
discharge his or her weapon during his or her entire career on the police force. During
2006, 156 officers were involved in a firearm-discharge incident. Moreover, fewer than
half of these incidents involved an officer shooting at a human being. The majority
of discharges are accidental or involve officers shooting at dogs."
Even firing in real situations is filled with misses. That's one reason why the officer cited above carries 145 rounds of ammo. Consider:
"A 2003 study by the Police Policy Studies Council reports that shots fired by police officers that hit the intended perpetrator range from as low as 25 percent to approximately 50 percent. The article cites Baltimore County Police as being one of the "best trained police departments" with regards to firearm use. This study reports that this best trained Baltimore County Police Department's overall gunshots fired-to-hit ratio was 49 percent. In daylight conditions, the ratio was 64 percent and that dropped to 45 percent in low light conditions. Additionally, the study reports when more than one officer is involved, called bunch shootings, not only are more police gunshots fired, but the gunshot-to-hit ratio is even lower. The number of shots fired increases at a range of 45 percent to 118 percent. The range of gunshots fired-to-hits ratio when one officer was involved was 51 percent, when two officers involved the hit ratio dropped to 23 percent and more than two officers were involved the hit ratio dropped to 9 percent. "
Under stress, accuracy is vital. Ammo that misses it's target means the bad guys have a greater chance of winning. A .22 in the eye is more powerful than a .44 magnum that misses.
Not exactly correct. They are, however, a favorite for assassinations and "hits".Quote:
Originally Posted by villiers
Power. When loaded to full potential it's at the top of the most powerful auto pistol cartridge list. Unfortunately many ammo makers are now loading it to ''10mm Lite'' levels because of limp wristed pansies not being able to manage the recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas
I know accuracy is everything. They found in shootouts with cops vs the bad guys, the guys who survive aren't usually the ones who shoot best rather the ones who make best use of cover. The area people also tend to get shot the most is the hands simply because that is what is holding the gun, and you naturally tend to focus on that area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaspriter
I personally don't want to get shot with anything, be it a .22 or a .45. All sorts of calibers have been used effectively in combat and as carry firearms (for a while the .25 and .32 were the carry firearms of choice, and the .380 is still very popular). If I had to go with a stopping power firearm I knew would work every time it would definitely be a nice Webley in .455.
As for power, a friend of mine heard a noise on his back porch and when he looked out found a full grown black bear. Since that was the kitchen door and he didn't want it inside, he grabbed his Glock 20 in 10mm and shot it twice in the bow tie. It fell and didn't move again. It was close mind, about 6 ft away...Quote:
Originally Posted by bob seijas