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Hello,
So, on a whim, i bid on this and won: French Lebel 1886 M93 rifle 8mm lebel 1916 : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com
While I wont know it all until its in my hands, I was just wondering how I did price wise and I know some stuff about these rifles (dissasembly, ammo, etc.) I was wondering if there were any tidbits or things to look out for when I get it (this is my first dive into french rifles).
Any info/advice is appreciated.
Bernard
Appears to be about the going price for the condition of the old well used war horse. Ray
Like Ray stated, fair price for your Lebel rifle. It has the modification for the Model 1932N cartridge (N stamp on receiver). Parts are difficult to find and stocks impossible to find, use quality cartridges
that are modern production, that cheap machine gun ammo is not worth the trouble
Price for the condition is a bit high for Gunbroker. They keep going up however so you didn't really do badly. They are getting hard to find in any condition. I spent about 3 years actively searching for one, found the carbine first, got the rifle maybe 10 months ago.
It looks like it has a shootable bore and does have the upgrade so it can use the modern ammo. My biggest concern when getting it is with all that pitting where you can see it, what's it look like under the wood. Take it apart and neutralize any active rust first. Taking care of that is important as it will continue if you don't.
Bolt appears to be mis-matched. but stock looks like it matches the receiver. Stock should clean up OK with a good wipe down with fresh BLO.
When I get it, i'm gonna strip it down and clean it up (I hope that the pitting isnt bad and some of what the pictures show is grime and grease). I will admit that my quest for this started a month ago after I saw a bayonet for one in my local surplus store. I will admit I would have liked to have gotten it cheaper, it was 180.00 for most of the auction then it shot up to 350 and i bid 375 figuring id get outbid (what I get for toying with the Gunbroker gods). As for ammo, I figured i'd probably use prvi ammo unless I found the surplus really cheap.
Ironically enough, the seller I bought this from just listed another one: french lebel m1886-93 rifle 1916 8mm Lebel : Curios & Relics at GunBroker.com
One question, could this have been a bringback from Afghanistan?, I read about some being brought back and sold.
That one will go for a higher price. The metal looks to be in real good shape, Ray
Yes, that one is a $600+ in all likelihood.
Without paperwork, it's just another Lebel. I haven't heard about these coming back from Afghanistan, mostly Martini's from there. The French were never there.
Looking that one again at it, except for the heavy varnish on the stock, which is easily removed, it really is a nice one with what appears to be an excellent finish w/ clear and deep stampings. I bet, as you said, $600 plus, and most likely plus. If it was matching it would probably go for north of 1,000. But in any case, you don't see many that are still all matching. I have a matching one I bought at a show about 7yrs ago, no "N" stamp, the finish is not as good but it only cost $200, so I can't complain too much. Ray
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Here's the one I got last fall. I don't remember exactly what I paid but I'm thinking it was around $525. I probably posted the price on here somewhere but I can't find it.
French Lebel 1886/93
And the carbine I got for a steal at $130, no other fees.
1886 R93 R35 Lebel
[QUOTE=Aragorn243;335104]Here's the one I got last fall. I don't remember exactly what I paid but I'm thinking it was around $525. I probably posted the price on here somewhere but I can't find it.
That's a nice rifle and because of it's condition, I believe you paid under it's value if that's what you did pay.
Bernard, don't forget to post photos of the one you bought when you get it, Ray
Here's one w/sling and bayonet that just came up for sale on Gunboards for $650. Can't really tell by the photos, but it almost looks like the metal is little rough under the finish and the stock looks like it was cleaned. , Ray
WTS WWI French Model 1886 Battle Rifle with sling Bayonet
The Lebel rifle auction that Capt Simon posted, that looks like the Lebel rifle had the butt stock cut on the left side for the action cover. The cut
was later repaired. Finding a Lebel with the action cover is quite rare, also require a longer screw too
Here's a link to Neal Gutterman's site showing a Lebel w/dust cover for sale. Not sure if the auction is current, Ray
Request Rejected
Link says rejected but it still links. Not sure why it shows rejected, I heard Neal has not been going to shows recently, maybe cutting back or health problems.
The condition of the cover doesn't match the rifle though. I wonder if they make repro's of them?
SARCO had some action covers some years ago but I would suspect that they might have been repros, you need a longer metric threaded
screw to attach the cover. I would think the covers were discarded after WW1 but US veterans did bring or send home Lebel rifles and
some might have still had the covers.
Looks like the link isn't working now, I just tried it. Maybe just temporary off. Ray
Looks like the link isn't working now, I just tried it. Maybe just temporary off. Ray
Oops, double post.
One nice and somewhat rare accessary to have with your Lebel rifle is the Viven-Bessieres grenade launcher, the French only used the Lebel to launch rifle grenades and not
the Berthier rifle.
Hey Bernard. Nice score, and I think you got the rifle for a fair price.. Lebels do not come up that often, and when they do, many are in about the same condition as the one you just acquired. Hope she's not too gritty under the gumline.
My first Lebel was in similar condition to yours, and I was very happy to grab it when it came up, as the search had been a bit long. I moved it on to someone else, who was also pleased to get it, when I found a very much nicer example later on - absent the "N" upgrade.
I think this spent time on display among smokers, as the wood and steel all had a coating of sticky residue that is slowly coming off as I handle the rifle.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_6649-1.jpg
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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...IMG_6643-1.jpg
That one is a beauty, one of the best condition Lebel rifles I have seen. The wood shows no wear or abuse and w/ deep cartouches. Is it still matching? How about some more photos. As mentioned, You normally don't see them in that condition. Ray
Hi Ray. Yes, I couldn't believe this example when it came up. It's almost too nice for me.
She is completely matching. I need to take some fresh photos.
Fantastic....Quote:
Originally Posted by RangeRover
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Well, it finally arrived and i've taken apart partly, but so far ive found some good, some bad:
1. The pitting is there but shallow (based on patina, the pitting is at least 50-80 yrs old) its also been oiled by someone in the past, I only found 1 spot of fresh rust but it was very fresh and wiped right off.
2. The bore has no pitting or rust, in fact its in excellent condition.
3. The action is smooth and is in excellent shape( still have st strip the reciever and check but it all functions good, even the loading gate)
4. The only big issue is that the fore-end has two cracks at the muzzle end and either the magazine no longer has a spring or the spring has disintegrated with time (the pin holding the magazine in at the reciever is rusted in place)
5. The only thing not matching is the bolt body, the rest is numbers matching (what numbers are still legible)
I'll have some pics up later tonight but I have one question already, should I call out the seller since its not technically complete???
The spring shouldn't be a big issue. There are repro/replacements out there and easy to get. Your call on calling the seller. I bought an old rifle that I felt was not listed accurately. I didn't pay a lot for it and I figured I got what I paid for and took a gamble on it so I didn't make a big deal of it. It was a $100 1891 Italian Carcano and I figure it was worth that even in the condition it was in. Bore was called dirty, he did call it a wall hanger. The bore was the worst I've ever seen. But he did call it a wall hanger. I guess you need to judge yours the same. A $7 spring a deal breaker?
Look forward to the photos.
I haven't decided what to do seller wise, but the issue really isn't a spring (i have one found already through brownells), its the 3 cracks in the fore-end. It looks like there stress related, probably from the spring putting pressure on the end. Also, there's a dent part way down the right side which may be poking into the space itself. I pushed the piston in and now its disappeared into the fore-end. The pin holding magazine stop tube is also stuck and I've tried banging it out but i'm worried it might make the cracks worse or create new ones. Other than the pitting on the barrel, the rifles in pretty good shape.
Here are some pics illustrating the rifle and the cracksAttachment 63841Attachment 63850Attachment 63849Attachment 63848Attachment 63847Attachment 63846Attachment 63845Attachment 63844Attachment 63843Attachment 63840Attachment 63842Attachment 63851
Probably just age cracks, not much pressure from that spring, even fully compressed. I've seen worse pitting, I own worse pitting.
An update, I got the pin out and finally can see into the magazine well: the spring was in there but only 4 inches at the tube piston, the rest has become rust dust. I'm gonna fix the cracks (mostly to make them stable). I am curious about something, is it possible to modify the magazine tube to where its all encased in steel of similar thickness to the magazine piston stop tube? So instead of wood in the middle and metal at the ends, its more like a lever action musket, where its all metal and the stock is around it??
Might be possible but no reason to do it. Plus it would be altering the originality of the rifle. A risk might be changing the diameter of the tube could change the way the cartridges line up putting the primers at risk if the bullet to the rear isn't seating in the ring around the primer. It does seem like an odd design but it lasted unchanged and in use for over 50 years in various militaries.
Just a thought exersize. I could get a spring from here i guess but it costs more: Lebel (3) - A.A.S.
I believe Numrich has them for $7.
I know, i'm working on that. On another forum this was suggested as a substitute: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...ku=550-401-395
Also does anyone have any suggestions for finding ammo at a reasonable price??? Mines reamed for ball N.
I don't know if the Marlin spring would work or not. Hard to see why it wouldn't, it's held in place on both ends.
Ammo is not exactly easy. It is out there but you have to look pretty hard for it. Privy Partisan makes it but no one ever seems to have it. Surplus is also out there but hard to find. I suggest going to larger gun shows. That's the only place I've been able to find it. Most commercial ammo is good for any Lebel, the surplus only for N marked rifles.
If you can find the Privy, expect to pay $22-$25 a box for it. If you find surplus, should be under or close to $1 a round. Beware of Syrian ammo, only buy French manufacture.
Aragorn243, thanks for all the info so far. BTW, why is the Lebel trigger straight?? It has no curve whatsoever for finger positioning.
No idea other than to keep it simple for production and or cost.
If you look at all early French rifle designs, they are all very similar. Chassepot, Gras, Lebel and Berthier look nearly the same. Some parts are interchangeable. Most are simply slight modifications from the earlier.
Congrats again on the purchase. I feel your pain on the ammunition side. Some did show up in the U.S. in the last few months, based on posts online (scooped up right away) but nothing here, north of the 49th for years now, despite pleas from French military rifle owners. Brass is available more readily, however, if you have an interest in reloading.
Lots of ammo on Gunbroker.