M1903 ROD rear sight question

My great uncle enlisted in the Army in 1941 and according to the family history, ended up as a driver for General Eisenhower by 1945.

My mother has been passing down some of his personal effects, and among his wartime papers in an Army pouch was a rear sight. The best I can tell, it is from a Model 1903 ROD.

Any ideas how he would have managed to come into possession of this rear sight? From what I have read, this sight wasn't used on any of the 1903's except for the M1903 ROD style and that rifle was from the early 1900's. Could it still have been found on WW2 era 1903's? My great uncle was a "hoarder" later in life, at least. He also had a piece of shrapnel saved in some folded up paper in the same pouch.

A 1903 is one rifle I would like to add to my collection at some point. Would this sight be appropriate on any other model besides a 1903 ROD style?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...70b524_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...771361_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...75673d_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...5e9aa2_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...19656b_c-1.jpg

Something he picked up in passing and kept. I have lots of that stuff from when I started, it was common then and 40 years later, not so much.

Although very similar, the rear sight you have pictured is not from a Rod bayonet 1903, sorry for the bad news. The staff is almost identical but what eliminates the possibility is the base. The elevation ramp was a machined part of the fixed rear sight base on early Rod bayonet 1903s. I've seen many of the ones you have before, just can't remember off the top of my head what they were on.

Ok, the mystery deepens.

The staff sure looked like the few pictures I could find of the rod bayonet 1903 style. I had noticed the base was different but thought perhaps some of was missing. The only pictures I could find were of poorer quality. It didn't make sense to me as to how he would have ended up with the rod style during WW2.

I am looking forward to finding out to what exactly this rear sight belongs.

That's a Krag Base. The leaf itself could be either 1903 RB or M1902 Krag second pattern. They're almost identical.

Even if it is a RB rear sight, the RB parts were relatively common about 40 years ago. I remember looking at a gun catalog in the early 1980s that had quite a few RB parts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

That's a Krag Base. The leaf itself could be either 1903 RB or M1902 Krag second pattern. They're almost identical.

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That's what I was thinking, so I looked it up. The OPs sight is definitely a complete 1902 Krag sight, according to Brophy they tried to use the staff on a few of the early RB 03s. This may be where it was thought to be a r/b sight.

That particular rear sight LEAF was designed to be used on the 1903 Rod Bayonet Springfield. Notice that it has 25 yard increment marks on it? Krag 1902 and 1898 rear site Leafs didn't have those lines. The very earliest of the Rod Bayonet rear sight leafs didn't either. They were identical to the Krag sight leafs. However, the side of the leafs had notches or serrations that engaged the slides to allow adjustment in 25 yard increments. Later, the Rod Bayonet leafs were given the 25 yard sight increments on the leaf face.
When the U.S. Rod Bayonet 1903 Springfield design was being altered to the 1905 design, the rear sight leafs of the Rod Bayonet rear sights were removed and used by Springfield Armory for mounting on Krag rifles. Yes, Krags were still being refurbished, updated and issued at that time. That is why the sights can be seen on Krag rear sight bases.
However, the Rod Bayonet rear sight leaf Tightening Knobs on the Slides are unique in their design in that they have the Slot and dished out area on the knobs that allowed tightening with a rimless 30-03 case head, which was different than the knob on an original Krag 1898 or 1902 rear sight slide tightening knob, which only has a slot for the Krag cartridge Rim without the special dished out areas on either side.
The rear sight slide tightening Knob on the rear sight leaf you've pictured is also designed to have originally been for a 1903 Rod Bayonet rear sight.
Incidentally, I've never before seen the Rod Bayonet 1903 Springfield rifle referred to as a 1903 ROD. Sometimes 1903 RB, but never 1903 ROD.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...oggdqplo-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...tc3zcxmi-1.jpg

Still, they wouldn't have been so scarce during WW2. There were several gas trap M1s returned from a NG armory for rebuild in the '50s and that's just an example of how long an out-of-line unit can have "Stuff". This sight was lying around and he grabbed it because it was different and as we can still see, very neat. I still have shrapnel I picked up when I was starting out. It will go into my estate like his did. My ID tags as well...all three sets.

Now, you should put it on the WTS or Ebay and get it where it needs to live, unless you intend to sit and look at it for years to come...

Like I said, 40-50 years ago, early parts were fairly common and sometimes could be picked up for free, or a very low cost.

So the general concensus seems to be that this is an RB1903 leaf on a Krag base. As the base would not work on a 1903, this had to come off a Krag rifle, correct?

As for me calling it a 1903 ROD, that is all on me, as I am not familiar with Springfield terminology (yet). My apologies. If a mod wants to correct my thread title to avoid confusion, be my guest.

I think the history of this rear sight is Interesting, and I would like to incorporate it into a rifle at some point, so I now know to look for a Krag. Any particular one?

Could be, anything is possible but I have seen that exact rear sight, increments, screw slot and all on Krag Carbines before too. Might have been a rebuild thing too, who knows.

You would have to find a rifle with a handguard that will fit. Along with the several rear sights were several handguard varieties, as well.

One missing it's rear sight ?


Sorry , couldn't resist .
Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emmagee1917

One missing it's rear sight ?


Sorry , couldn't resist .
Chris

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Perfectly understood! ;)

Maybe one in rougher shape, or missing because it was scoped. Or maybe I will build one from parts. Hell if I know. Time will tell....

There was a German G-43 rifle photos that were posted on the CMP forums a few days ago, it had the same rear sight as yours !! It was something someone put on the
the rifle as the original sight leaf was 1200 meters. Restorations or made-up rod bayonet 1903 rifles will attach your sight base to an open bottom 1903 rear sight base.
It will be a little short but still looks ok