I've tried everywhere - No-one knows!! - Do YOU?

Hi All

This item, recovered from a British army dump, is driving me nuts. Between us all, we have found about 70 of these things, (mostly in among the Lee-Enfield bakelite spike bayonet scabbards and Kerr sling buckles), but have completely failed to identify them. Some have speculated that they are an 'emergency' spike bayonet scabbard variant, or perhaps a prototype of such an item that never saw service. Others poo-poo this idea and see it as a red herring, and that these have nothing to do with spike bayonets.

Whatever they are, they have completely evaded positive ID. So, time for some help from you guys!

Do you recognise them? Each piece is no more than 2 inches from end to end of the brass tube, and all have five rivet points. These were either attached to canvas webbing material or possibly leather, but we are not entirely sure.

One thing is for sure, if you can ID them, you will make on group of diggers very happy......regardless as to what they turn out to be!!

Please help :)

RRPG

I'll offer a completely unsupportable guess that they might have been sockets for tent posts since they appear to be brass and have large head brass rivets and nothing else, i.e. canvas, is there. That they are unfinished (not buffed smooth, etc.) and that there are no markings suggest they were part of something bigger.

Have you taken one down to the IWM for their curators to have a look and a guess?

Thanks for the suggestion Paul. Only thing is, all we find in this dump site is weapon parts and ordnance, and have never found anything to do with tents.

As for the IWM, I doubt they would be able to help. Indeed, I have tried contacting them before and they ignore or simply can't be bothered to answer my emails. In any case, the knowledge of people on this forum, including my own, would probably outstrip most of theirs.

God you must be having fun sorting through all the items you have recovered so far.

Dick

A Vickers gun water bag spout perhaps?

Funny you should say that. The greatest fun of all is trying to ID the more unusual items. I have a box in the garage with my 'this-has-got-to-be-something-but-I-just-don't-know-what-it-is-yet' items :)

Now that has not been suggested before. Interesting. I feel a web search coming on........ :) :) :)

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Originally Posted by RRPG

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As for the IWM, I doubt they would be able to help. ...

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That's interesting. My experiences with the Australian War Memorial have been very different. They are generally interested even when it may not be something they are looking for or need.

I did contact the AWM to ask them a question on an aerial mine they had displayed and got the deer in the headlight look I actually spoke to the curator and had to go into a lengthy detail about the mines attributes and why it would be a great item of interest to the GP if they furnished the facts on it but maybe it was a bad day for them as they did not seem interested.
The reason I contacted them after viewing that display is if it is a GEORGE mine then what they have is a cracker and the design work put into it was to say the least awesome;
Couple of facts on GEORGE;
. Only one way into the mine to delouse it is from the rear, underneath that cover were photo-electric cells so as soon as daylight hit them the mine fired instantly and the information was gone as the expert died there and then (Usually on the other types the fuse run time was 17 seconds so you had to get 400 yds away in that time?)
The Germans assembled the mine in filtered sunlight, so they had to delouse it in total darkness not even with a torch light, one story has a GEORGE mine being deloused and a lightning storm broke over head so the disposal expert covered the cells with his hands and prayed. So the photo electric cells were new to the boffins VERNON.
. A strange wafer type arrangement was found deeper in the mine with tracings on it which later turned out to be the first printed circuit.

The only reason the Allies got to know what GEORGE had inside is one was so damaged from the drop it was unable to function as desired after it landed on the docks the royal engineers rang VERNON because it was out of their league once they had started to pull it to bits.
One thing I will say about the people in this book "Softly Tread The Brave" By Ivan Southall is that they were all volunteers of the RNVR and some of the stories in the book make your hair stand on end what they did and the highest award they could attain was the George Cross or George Medal no V.C's as they had to be in the face of the enemy to get that award.
But you tell me on the moors trying to delouse an Acoustic/Magnetic mine knee deep in mud with your face pressed against 1 ton of H.E and 17 seconds to cover 400 yds if the fuse started to run, the sequel to this book is "Open the Ports" sees the intrepid men delousing mines in pitch black water a mission so dangerous there was no official sanction for it they were called "P-Parties". Both the copies are out there just a bit pricey so try Kindle.

Very interesting Cinders :)

But do you know what the heck the relic items are? :) :D

That's an easy one. They are the brass fittings for leather water funnels for feeding water into watercooled machineguns. The ones I have seen are for the Browning M1917A1.

--fjruple

Edit-- I will post some pictures

As promised here are some pictures.

--fjruple

Attachment 63853Attachment 63854Attachment 63855Attachment 63856Attachment 63857

Edit: If you have 70 of them can I get one for my Browning semi-auto M1917A1 kit.

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Originally Posted by fjruple

Leather Water Funnels

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Well done that. Now you could have some repros made from these salvaged spouts. Bet they'd sell well as I've never seen one.

fjruple - You little BEAUTY !!!!!!!!! Many many MANY thanks!!!

They are quite rare here. Being made of leather they did not last long. Several years ago a member of another forum made up several replicas for those who wanted one.
I am guessing the 70 odd funnels were part of the accessories provided to the UK with watercooled Brownings M1917s in the early part of WWII. We always wondered where they got off to.

fjruple