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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rQueenE2-1.jpg
Is Princess Elizabeth (if that is really her) shooting a Fultonised No.1 Mk 3? It has an extra band in the front so it seems. Also, what sight is she likely shooting with?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3e243668-1.jpg
Here is another one of Princess Elizabeth, shooting what appears to be a Long Lee?
Maybe Peter Laidler could Email her and confirm the facts for us...? Since he's so close...
Just hope that it hasn´t affected her hearing as it obviously has mine (shooting without the Mickey Mouse ear muffs)
I'm going to London this afternoon. I'll pop in and see her and mention it.............
Not going to get much result with the finger behind the trigger.......second pic.
That's pretty observant Muffer. I'll mention that to here
.........but they'd still signal a Centre Bull.
The rifle on the last pic is a bit odd.
Mk1 SMLE rear sight and rear handguard, but no sign of the Mk1 bolt head or body mods for the charger setup. Range Special "bitza"?.
And it has some sort of "tag" attached as well.
Any thoughts?
The odd long lee is the converted .22 caliber Naval version. The whole picture would show them shooting from the deck of the (I believe) the Royal Yatch.
Pic 2. Is it on half cock?
Attachment 64063I don't think it's on half cock and how do you see her finger as being behind the trigger?
I watched the SASC setting up the Enfield rest HM used to start the Centenary Army 100 match, it took them hours..... But were hitting bull after bull (at 200m I think) .
After dinner the drizzle started then HM turned up pulled the trigger to open the shoot. And... Hit an outer, just showed how 5.56 is effected by the weather. And the honesty of the butts party.
We had that rifle at Warminster Skippy. What a palava when it had to be withdrawn for conversion to L85A2. Ordnance wallahs, Equipment managers, other hierachy here and there all having their say. Walked over to the Infantry HQ asked xxxxx if I could speak to the Chief of Staff. He doesn't entertain lowly Captains as a rule but needs must and all that...... Had a chat with him, he had a chat with his Logistics opposite number and hey presto....... it's still there, still in its L85A1 guise.
Best we ever had would be CDS or maybe MDN to come visit. Occasionally the PM, but no one would be allowed to show their faces for that sort of thing...you guys...you got royalty...
Hard to tell with the 1/2 cock position camera angle, I must say Pic-1 spotters jacket it a bit over the top for a range day......Pic-2 wheres the mag or is it converted to a single shot, also there's a for sale tag on it maybe HRH was testing the fit prior to purchase!!
The Royal Yacht as in HMS Vanguard. I believe the second picture might be taken during the Royal tour to South Africa.Quote:
Originally Posted by breakeyp
I particularly like Her Majesty's spotter in thread #1. It is either the elegance of dress or a big spoof -- can you imagine a spotter wearing a massive fur collar, dressed to the nines, ready to attend a Royal Ballet!?Quote:
Originally Posted by British Mandarin
I found the full picture. Look at what she is spotting with! A pretty lengthy telescope.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/dat...379e1549ca.jpg
http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/dat...379e1549ca.jpg
The picture won't show properly, so I linked it.
Link doesn't work either...just save the pic to your desktop and then post it here...
Still getting the hang of posting pictures!
Doesn´t really look much like Princess Elizabeth. Are you sure it´s not someone else?
Its a well-known photo, and I'm certain that it is not one of the princesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaspriter
Great picture of the Queen's Spotter. Perhaps this is Her Majesty's reaction to a Ghillie suit through the eyes of a Paris fashion studio. I wouldn't mind taking her on a hunting trip -- great camouflage -- perhaps the raccoons and fox would think she was kin.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
What more can I say.....?
A commercial BSA No1 Mk3 Purchased from Fulton’s in the 70's, Bisley works stamped, bedded in cork with the extra band & has Harry Hardwicks inspection marks (Top Enfield inspector)
Oh and they did tell me that the rifle was an important gun that they had kept for years.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...y6redttn-1.jpg
I wasn't entirely sure that was Princess Elizabeth either, but everywhere I've seen the picture people have said it was her. Who is actually in the picture?
@Chris, that is an absolutely magnificent rifle. How well does it shoot?
On the occasion that I take it out it still shoots pretty good (better than me). Come to think about it the last time I used it I won a competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by British Mandarin
What are the sights on it?
The Sights are Parker-Hale 5A with Bisley works Stamp also the fore sight is a Parker-Hale, it was sold as a "Queens’s prize rifle" by Fulton’s.Quote:
Originally Posted by British Mandarin
It would be nice to think that the Queen had her mitts on my rifle at some point, perhaps I can sell it for a fortune with that sore of provenance…! Yeh right..
The first picture is not the Queen. We've seen enough pictures of her at that age to know what she looked like. And she would not have participated in 'novelty' pictures of this kind.
The second one is the Queen; it was taken on the quarterdeck of Vanguard during the voyage to South Africa for the King's Tour in 1947 (the only one he undertook after the war, as his health declined). .22 No.2's converted from Long rifles, as most of the early .22s were, and the sort of thing the Navy, who didn't have much use for smallarms, tended to retain longer than everybody else.
http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...-1900-2002.jpg
some other shots in the same sequence.
Do we have any idea of who might be in the first picture?
No we don't, so far. It's one of those 'novelty' pictures that picture editors use to fill the paper on a slow news day. "Ooh, look here's women doing something unlady-like"
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam...ge-gallery.jpg
I looks so close I would have to say yes.
No, it's not Princess Elizabeth, and if it was her companion would probably be wearing something more suitable for a rifle range, that did not upstage the Princess. That sounds silly to us these days, but those were and probably still are some of the unwritten rules of protocol.
Whoever they were, they were a couple of game "gels"; I would have liked to have met them!
Reminds me of an article in the NRA Journal where a "lady shooter" wrote about her experiences. When she first told her parents she was going to shoot at Bisley her mother said in some alarm, "Bisley dear? With all those MEN?" Her father laconically, "Right, better take a hat pin".
It was a good story anyway! ;)
I think you will find it is Liz in both pic's.
She was quite a markswoman, took her first stag at 16, learned to shoot rats and sparrows with her mother on the Estates.
The well dressed lady I think was also well born, a Countess or something, been a long time since I saw the original, may have been a Mountbatten, but these pics used to circulate back in the '50's and were regularly seen here in OZ, where we are not so anti gun.
Try googleing her and shooting, you could be surprised.
Hi muffett,
I have also read on other forums that Princess Elizabeth shot stags before, but I could not find any source to back that up.
Sometimes it's good to be Queen.
Do all British spotters wear fur collars?
"Do all British spotters wear fur collars?"
Yes, unfortunately, they do. I can't get used to it. Bisley is as camp as Christmas.
Here's one of Liz, Margaret and Mom in 1946, I think Louie Mountbatten was bound for Malaya or there abouts then, so the Boss and family were probably touring to.Attachment 64109
It was the South Africa tour on the royal yacht HMS Vanguard. (The Royal Navy's last battleship)
Has anyone else noticed the almost total lack of interest in this thread from the UK contingent...........
They are probably all having fits(shock/horror) at the irreverant way we are discussing 'er over there.
Muffet,
I'm an "over there" ....now living "over here" :-) and think maybe it is no surprise "over there" to see the Princess or later Queen, firing various guns. She was quite a shot with a sporting rifle and gun.
In other words, no big deal.
There are apparently more photos abroad though, of her Mum firing different arms. She also was quite the shot!
I'm not sure how we arrive at the notion that she or any of her family was 'quite a shot........' by any stretch of the imagination. Whatever 'quite a shot' means of course. Princess Ann on the other hand was quite a rider and as such made it into the UK national Olympic team. Maybe a forumer can remind me/us where the family shooters excelled...........
Peter,
Going back to when I still lived in the UK, (30-odd years ago) Photos turned up in the Shooting Times on occasion, showing the Queen out taking part in a days pheasant shooting. At the time, the comments were made that she was much better than an 'average ' shot.
Of course, she would likely be taught by Percy Stanbury, from the West London Shooting grounds.
Given the shotgun would be made to measure, and as no better teacher ever existed than Percy, can you tell me why she Shouldn't have been a good shot???? The Lady never was simple or lacked motor skills.......... Very good dog handler as well at Field Trials.
I'm sure the Royal Princess as Markswoman must have been a tradition passed from Queen to Princess as a result of the rogue kings and noblemen who lacked in character and trustworthiness. Recall the olde toast: "May the sun never set on the English Empire!!!! -- no one can trust an English noblemen in the dark!" Hence the ladies of the court armed themselves, and the tradition lives on, while the root cause may not be so sinister any more.
Is that from from the personal collection Muffer ? just looking at the AB (1st one leaning on the rail) reminds me of one of the lads I,ve sailed with who did his 22 years in the mob and left the mob the same rank..... never promoted, but served a long time on the Royal Yacht, sound bloke but had more promotion in the MN....Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
Actually Peter, The Queen's Grandfather King Edward, was one of the ten best shots in England. Along with Lord Walsingham, Lord Ripon, and the Maharajah Duleep Singh. (Yes, he had an estate in England!!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Her Father was also one of the Very best shots in England in his day as well.
I am surprised that these facts escaped you until now!
Sorry, got me facts wrong in the above.
That's what comes of rushing And using my memory!
King Edward was of course the Queen's Great Grandfather. Excellent game shot. it was her G-father King George who was one of the Four best shots in England, not one of the ten best.... Please pardon the screw-up.
Richard.
Her Majesty may or may not have been a decent shot, but she wasn't above wringing the neck of a downed pheasant when necessary. My kind of Queen! Gawd bless 'er!
We're a tad less servile and fawning and perhaps slightly more republican than we were is all I feel the need to add. PM sent Richard......
A Very good point Peter!
With being out of the country 31 years and never been back, I am likely stuck in the past, and have not 'evolved'. Happens all the time in the "Colonies"!
Apologies if offense was given. Was merely trying to set record straight about some first rate shots in the Royal Family.
ATB,
Richard.
No offence taken or even imagined Richard. But whether these Royals were good shots - or not - is unverifiable surely. And who were the arbiters? After all, unless you want to be locked up in the tower and miss out on your OBE, you're not likely to tell the world that his or her shooting prowess is, er......, 'wanting' are you? It's like me saying that my daughter is a top-shot piano player
Well taken Peter, and you Do have a point!
It appears though, that the shooting in the early 20th century was very demanding. ....To have four birds dead in the air (two in front, & two behind) was a feat often performed by the best shots, King included.
There was a price to pay though. Often a shocking headache the next day, after firing maybe 2,000 cartridges.
No, I believe the title "best shot' was earned, and not merely awarded because of who you were.
This does not mean I like or condone the old idea of the battue, with its great slaughter of game, but to give credit where it was due, you Had to be fit to stand the racket!
All best,
Richard.
As a fawning royalist, I´m perfectly certain that she´s a very good shot.
There's no servility or fawning involved Peter. From over here it's part of our constitution and having a check to politicians with delusions of grandeur or worse is a very good thing; other that is, than some unelected "supreme court" appointed by the same politicians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
So who's your new Prez going to be? Tony Blair or some other Euro lickspittle?
Sure, Charlie's a bit eccentric and his dad is a right old Prussian, but if people knew what goes on in the brave "republics", they might bitch a bit less about what they've got, and appreciate it a bit more.
Just my tuppence of course.:D
I tend to agree Surpmil,
Not so much What they do, its the Position they bar to others that counts!
Mind you, a few less hanger's on would be a good thing as well!
All power attracts hangers-on. Better to have the relatively harmless and relatively inexpensive hangers-on of royalty than the grasping and vicious swine who accumulate around other power centers. It's a pity so many people in the UK p1ss and moan about their institutions while forgetting that they were the model and the envy of the world for the last 800 years or so. If they had a bit more sense they would pull together socially and economically and put the "great" back in the name, since they allowed it drift away since WWII. All the raw materials are there, all that is lacking is the will. Yes, the losses of wars and emigration have sorely depleted the human reserves over the last few centuries, but one former American ambassador wrote that he still felt there were more people of real talent per square yard in the UK than anywhere else on earth.
I was told by a lecturer that we still had the best Nobel Prize winners to population ratio in the world. Mind you that was about 30 years ago!
As an American who works in Canada extensively, I am always a bit honoured and a bit amused when I sign a contract with a Ministry in the Canadian Government (provincial or federal). Typically the contract begins with something like "In the name of Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada." New Canadian citizens swear allegiance to The Queen of Canada. Elections are called and laws are promulgated in The Queen's name. It's a beautiful tradition and historic symbol of connectedness. (although I'm not sure it sits well with the Quebecois). Heritage still plays an important part in the culture of all the Commonwealth nations. It's something most American's are totally unaware of.
Found this a while ago;
Yes, I'd rather have a Royal Family than not!
I don't recall any of the Royal Family spouting anti gun BS like so many other people in high places do. For that I respect the willingness of the Queen and her family picking up a gun and enjoying using it, even if is only for a photo op!
Enfield,
Most of the"lads" in the Royal Family have been very keen game shots. Inc. Prince Charles.
Years ago back in England I used to get "Shooting Times" magazine, and on the cover was always the same quote from The Duke of Edinburgh;
"The wildlife of today is not ours to dispose of as we please, we have it in trust, We must account for it to those who come later".
So yes, keen game shot, And conservationist.. something inexplicable to an "anti".
Prince Phillip got into DEEP **** when he spoke out against the pistol ban !
Somewhere there's a photo of Prince Charles shooting a P14 with an Enfield hammer forged barrel, probably at Bisley.
"Aiming for Harrods" could be the caption? :D
Knowing their deep rooted detestation for Mohammed Al-Fayed (the owner of Harrods who's son was Doddi) you could caption it '...gunning for Harrods'!
Incidentally, thread 61, we still have that rifle at Warminster. I understand that it's since been zeroed!
Prince Charles fired at Bisley one year in the early 1980s (or late 1970s). I seem to recall he was on a house of lords team. I will see if I can drag up the details
back in the 1980s he was the NRA president or honorary something important to the association. All that seems to have changed after the 87.
It was the Vizianagram
Note that he became president of the NRA in 1975Attachment 64322
Yes, they have the rifle in the museum there along with a photo
Prince Charles At Bisley Shooting Ground Stock Photo, Picture And Royalty Free Image. Pic. 67645541
https://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=15664&d=1283906590
Mmmmmmm...... Didn't 'Lord' Brocket get sent down for fraud several years later.......
Wasn't it "target doctoring" or some such?
Politicians are generally not exactly loved around here, either.