Breaking News. Important

I don't really know where to post this thread, so if it's in the wrong place please stick it in the right one.


I have today been informed that 15+ " military type " firearms have had their FRT numbers removed from the FRT table, and there are "probably more to come ". Expect to see a new list of military style " prohibited " type firearms listed by name or configuration being issued by Order-In-Council or some other beauracratic means in the very near future.

I do not have the full list, but M14 rifles and CZ 858's are two of the firearms mentioned. These can no longer be transferred or sold.

What's your source?

It seems highly unlikely to me that new OICs would be forthcoming while C301 is on the table. It also goes against everything the CPC has ever said about "gun control".

Of course that doesn't rule out bureaucratic shenanigans though the only way to deem a Chinese M14 prohibited would be to declare it a Converted Auto.

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Originally Posted by Stevo

What's your source?

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My sources are The assistant to my MP Garry Breitkreuz, Executive Director of the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action and the Canadian Shooting Sports Association, and a person from within the CFC who has asked that I keep his name confidential.

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Originally Posted by Stevo

It seems highly unlikely to me that new OICs would be forthcoming while C301 is on the table. It also goes against everything the CPC has ever said about "gun control".

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Unlikely or not it is happening now.

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Originally Posted by Stevo

Of course that doesn't rule out bureaucratic shenanigans though the only way to deem a Chinese M14 prohibited would be to declare it a Converted Auto.

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Either that or prohibit it by type.

If they had let it be known they were going to do this, everyone would have rushed out and bought a CZ 858 or whatever. Now nobody can. I think this is the reason for being sneaky.


"Hi Mick:

We have just been informed that the RCMP have removed 15+ FRTs from the system (and maybe more to come). Dealers are complaining because all transfers (sales) of these firearms are now stalled. "

If this is the case, it's bureaucrats run amok with no concern for what the law actually says.

Be in no doubt that this is the case.

I just went to the CFC website and did a search using the BD 3008 FRT number. It was there last wekend, but no longer.

Interesting. Are you hearing grandfathering, or confiscation?

I have told all I know. We will just have to wait and see what happens next.

Well, if it goes south and they confiscate, I'll be out quite a few thousand bucks ;)

At this point, I'll await something official though...

I feel for you fellows very much, I just hope they choose not to confiscate and allow a grandfather clause. We have had a very close law passed in New Jersey USA in 1986, they banned them outright and we had to dispose of them our selves through dealers or persons from another state, it was then and is now appalling! Certainly not the way of a free nation-SDH

IF this is the case, the Conservatives are going to get a swift kick in the a$$ from all the LAW ABIDING firearms owners!

Regards
gunnutjay

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Originally Posted by gunnutjay

IF this is the case, the Conservatives are going to get a swift kick in the a$$ from all the LAW ABIDING firearms owners!

Regards
gunnutjay

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It looks like the RCMP ( or whoever controlls them ) are going alone on this.

I'm not certain that the Conservatives are behind it. From what I am told Garry B only found out about this yesterday morning.

Until yesterday I thought the Conservatives were running the country, but I'm not so sure about that now. There is something very strange going on.

Any word on when the CSSA will make this info public?

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Originally Posted by Mick

It looks like the RCMP ( or whoever controlls them ) are going alone on this.

I'm not certain that the Conservatives are behind it. From what I am told Garry B only found out about this yesterday morning.

Until yesterday I thought the Conservatives were running the country, but I'm not so sure about that now. There is something very strange going on.

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If this is the case, then it won't happen. The RCMP cannot issue an OIC. Only cabinet can do that. The ONLY thing the RCMP can do is rule whether a firearm is a converted auto or not.

This being the case, I would NOT worry about the M305 getting prohibited as they cannot and never could accept full auto parts. The receiver rail is not milled out to accept a full auto trip lever. Period.

If you are instead talking about the "new" VZ58 lineup John at Marstar was trying to get imported (not including the VZ58S and VZ58L), then yes, you are quite right that the RCMP has ruled them prohib converted autos. John is fighting an appeal on that as we speak and it only started less than a week ago.

There was some talk that the RCMP were revisiting the status of the bullpup Type 97, but as of yesterday, transfers were still being approved for them.

I talked to John last week and he was clear that the RCMP HAVE NOT re-classed previously sold VZ58S and VZ58L's. I do not know if the same is true of the 858.

My personal take is that the VZ58S and VZ58L receivers from CZ Hermex are rather different than the CZ858 receivers. The method of limiting them to semi is different and also, the 858's have the area where the czech military serializes the receivers milled away. If the RCMP were to use anything to claim a gun was unjustly converted from what once was a live ex-military full-auto, it would probably be that milling work which is only found on the 858.

Apart from that, I've heard nothing. Nadda. Zip. Squat.

That would be highly unusual since I have contacts at the CFC, CBSA, and at least 4 dealers who sell these things. I would have thought I would have heard something by now if the problem extended beyond the aforementioned new VZ58 models Marstar was trying to import (they also mostly had REALLY short barrels that the RCMP would just HATE).

But who knows... I can't know all and see all 100% of the time ;)

Again, I will wait and see before panicking much. The Cons, IMHO, would not be wise to do something so much of their constituency would just loathe.

This is what alerted me to what's going on.


"Hi Mick:

We have just been informed that the RCMP have removed 15+ FRTs from the system (and maybe more to come). Dealers are complaining because all transfers (sales) of these firearms are now stalled. I think your troubles may be related to this bigger issue. I think it might help you(and others maybe) if you got in direct contact with Tony Bernardo, Executive Director of the Canadian Institute for Legislative Action and the Canadian Shooting Sports Association Phone: 905-571-2150 E-MAIL: abernardo343@rogers.com "

When I questioned this I was told this today....

"Hi Mick: This is the RCMP doing something under existing legislation. It has nothing to do with legislation. Please get in touch with Tony. He will know more than us.

I spoke with Tony Bernardo yesterday, and he told me that he did not have a complete list but the 858's and the M14 and I think the type 97 were on it. I think some of the SSD firearms may also be on the list as I can not find anything on the CFC FRT search using the BD 3008 FRT number, whereas a search last week revealed full details.

That just doean't make sense. Barring an OIC, the RCMP CANNOT prohibit a firearm. The only three "loopholes" to that are:

1) they get to determine if a bullpup is legal or not based upon if the stock is integral to the function of the firearm.
2) they get to determine if a gun is a converted auto or not, based ONLY upon if the receiver was ever a full auto.
3) they get to determine if a new firearm is a variant of a firearm already prohibited by name, and only if variants are included in the prohibition order.

The only other way to prohib a gun in Canada is by OIC. Period. End of story.

I'm interested to see where this goes.

Mick, who was the author of the message "We have just been informed...."?

Down south of the border, the gun owners are just waiting for another meaningless piece of legislation to hit the floors of house and senate. With all the crap already running amok, this could be the straw that broke the camels back-SDH

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

Mick, who was the author of the message "We have just been informed...."?

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Dennis Young. Garry B's assistant.



It is now impossible to register ( amongst others ) ANY sten. I have today initiated court proceedings.

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Originally Posted by Claven2

That just doean't make sense. Barring an OIC, the RCMP CANNOT prohibit a firearm. The only three "loopholes" to that are:

1) they get to determine if a bullpup is legal or not based upon if the stock is integral to the function of the firearm.
2) they get to determine if a gun is a converted auto or not, based ONLY upon if the receiver was ever a full auto.
3) they get to determine if a new firearm is a variant of a firearm already prohibited by name, and only if variants are included in the prohibition order.

The only other way to prohib a gun in Canada is by OIC. Period. End of story.

I'm interested to see where this goes.

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I am told they are using existing legislation for this.

Existing legislation would require an OIC - that is what the legislation provides for.

They can do anything they like if they think it is covered by existing legislation. No OIC needed.

Guys. pack your stuff and move South of your border.

yeah, great advice, thanks, move to Obama land........

Wolverine, the primary importer of the 858, has announced that he is unaware of any change in status with respect to these rifles.

This sort of thing just makes me disgusted to live in this country.
My Grandfather spent years of his life dodging bullets overseas, and would absolutely roll in his grave and **** on his uniform if he could live to see his country do this to its own citizens.

Can we get some sort of comment directly from your MP, rather than some hearsay from his assistant, confirming this so that we can have some solid evidence with which to make others aware and begin to a legal defense?

I don't want to start spreading rumours if this is nothing more than scuttlebutt...

Maybe your friend at the CFC could grow a pair and identify himself so that the RCMP can't simply deny it if this is really going on...

I'm not entirely convinced, since there doesn't seem to be a reliable source for the information yet, but if it were happening I wouldn't be surprised that the importers and dealers would be kept in the dark, afterall they're be the most vocal against it. If it really is happening, and no one will go on the record to expose it, we who will be most affected lose our foothold more and more with every minute we sit silent and dont publicly oppose it.

On CGN, it now seems the only affected guns are those with FRT's from Sasksten and some of the new VZ58 models that Marstar got caught with last month. Not as huge a deal as initially thought, apparently.

That's better news. Let's hope it's accurate.

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Originally Posted by Claven2

On CGN, it now seems the only affected guns are those with FRT's from Sasksten and some of the new VZ58 models that Marstar got caught with last month. Not as huge a deal as initially thought, apparently.

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There are definately others affected that you have not mentioned, including the sten you sent in for a FRT group inspection. BTW have you recieved a report yet ? I doubt it. You are lucky there are others prepared to do something about it.

Time will tell all. We will just have to wait for an official announcement.



Skippy,

My friend certainly has a pair, but he will not help anyone by losing his job.

Closed pending future official announcements.