No32 Mk3 in hand baggage..

I just flew out of Manchester with a very nice, new to me N032 Mk3 secured in its tin and wrapped in clothes in my carry-on backpack...or so i thought!!

Having progressed to the security check and having sent bags to the hold just within weight limits I was pretty happy.. I had also got through the magic gate without a beep and frisk:)

My backpack though was selected for hand inspection...a nice young lady technician was interested in the tin contents, so out it came - she fumbled with it for a while then asked me to open it and also what what it was - so I said "its a telescope for a rifle", even at the "R" word she recoiled...off to the team supervisor for reference (escalation).

So I stood without my wallet and belt (still in the inspection box with the back pack) and watched it go around the room to increasingly older and better dressed supervisors - the last of which wanted to fill me in on what was going on...

He indicated that my backpack, wallet and belt could come back to me and that I was free to take a seat while he called the police to review this "gun part" - obviously a malicous and evil device. So I sat and caught a few of the words exchanged with PC plod - "clearly not a controlled gun part", "no hes not threatening in any way", "its quite heavy".

After a while he returns a bit miffed that the Police did not want to see such a device in person and it was still up to him..so he lays down the good news and bad news...it could go on the plane with me, but not in the cabin because it is heavy and I could bash somebody on the head with it (tennis rackets are not allowed in the cabin either). So I indicated that it is a valuable antique telescope and that it would not be used for bashing anything and is no more than a half a pair of binoculars in a tin.

I was given a very courteous apologetic personal tour of all the behind the security area pathways to get back to baggage check and 6 airline reps helping to tag my backpack for hand loading - complete with fragile stickers that were too fragile to remove from their backing :) None of the airline crew were too concerned about the mystery object, or being bashed on the head.

It was waiting for me at me destination as expected, just thought I would share the story of its journey for smiles. I was astonished at the reaction of the Brit general public to R,G, F and W words throughout my whole trip - things have changed :/

I recall when I came out to my first posting in Victoria BC from Ontario in 1974 I brought my No1 Mk 3 rifle complete with bolt in and no trigger lock...in my baggage along with my kitbag. I had bought a nice padded civilian gun case to put it in for travel but no special measures. The ticket agent asked me to prove it was empty before it went into baggage and that was all. It reappeared at the other end without incident...I sure wouldn't get away with that now. Guess I wasn't as much of a threat then as I am now...

Quite right too, taking valuable antiquity's from the UK, it should have been confiscated and sent to me for safe keeping!

Well done for getting her away, so what's she going onto mate?

I'm inclined to agree with Jim. The authorities across the globe have clearly rumbled that as we get older we are becoming increasing security risks! I've been involved with firearms it seems like a mighty long time now; when I first was granted a FAC at the age of 19 in 1977 I could own a full bore self loading rifle & pretty much any pistol I wanted. Indeed for a short period of time even full auto weapons that had had the selector levers welded up to be rendered only capable of self loading operation, were tolerated. Then we had Hungerford, followed a few years later by Dunblane, together with further restrictions on types of ammunition that can be possessed, & I now find myself at the ripe old age of 57 no longer considered fit to be entrusted with a cartridge pistol even in .22LR, a full bore SLR, or a round of AP ammunition.

Perhaps I HAVE become more irresponsible & less trustworthy as I've become older!

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

Perhaps I HAVE become more irresponsible & less trustworthy as I've become older!

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Reminds me of a club member who had 20 firearms on his FAC, he had applied for another slot but told he had to do a one for one variation, later in a Gun shop in Wales he explained to the owner that they had refused a slot, the owner replied " So another one will make you more of a danger then"

Sounds like your scope caused as big a stir with airport security as did Capt. Joe Foss' Congressional MOH.
Good examples of what happens when common sense gets phased out in favor of protocol.

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I was astonished at the reaction of the Brit general public to R,G, F and W words throughout my whole trip……

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And you thought airport security would better?

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.. so I said "its a telescope for a rifle", even at the "R" word she recoiled…

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Even Ray Charles would have seen that coming.

Luckily you were bringing it back from the UK and not taking it out of the USA. Telescopes require export licensing and an AES ITN and can be confiscated by U.S. CBP. Fortunately, no import license is required……. yet!

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Luckily you were bringing it back from the UK and not taking it out of the USA. Telescopes require export licensing and an AES ITN and can be confiscated by U.S. CBP. Fortunately, no import license is required……. yet!

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I just got a small spring clip from Mossberg. It came complete with an End User Certificate!

Has the US Government finally flipped? (As we say this side of the pond.)

Yes, they have.

Yep, it's called ITAR. The AES ITN is a requirement for the export of ANY gun part. I have to charge an additional fee for the additional time it takes to lodge shipments and lose some sales too because people think it's a rip-off. In the meantime, the powers that be are striking deals to help arm the Iranians with nukes. I'd say "Flipped" is an understatement.

I tried to buy a Parker-Hale 5C from Helston Gunsmiths. They told me they can't export firearm parts to the USA.
My father-in-law lives in Cornwall and plays golf in Helston.
He popped in and bought the 5C for me and then posted it to me ( after checking with the post office first that all was legit). Go figure!

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Originally Posted by scoobsean

He popped in and bought the 5C for me and then posted it to me

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I know that's the easy way and quite possibly safe and cheaper...but...

I'm in the middle of a transaction between US/Canada right now over a small gun part, and I'd rather pay the small fee for a legal transaction than have U.S. issue ATF or FBI reps/RCMP standing in my front vestibule... Once they start seizing things it's hard to get them stopped. I don't have the funds to play in court.

Import permits aren't required for parts and accessories as long as they're declared under $100 to the USA. This doesn't include frames, barrels and breech blocks which require licensing regardless. Registered exporters in the USA can export up to $100 pretty much worldwide and $500 to Canada without export licensing. The shipments must still be lodged in the Automated Export System and an International Transaction Number issued before they can be shipped/posted legally.

---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 PM ----------

Like Jim; I feel that with all the lunacy in the world, it just isn't worth it to be anything but above board. I've heard a few horror stories too about rare, expensive items being seized and slated for destruction. A guy in the Chicago area recently lost a set of wood for a very rare Luftwaffe WZ29 rifle he was posting to Poland. It made me sad when I heard the story. He just didn't know the law and wasn't trying to be deceitful but it didn't matter when the nice lady inspector from CBP at O'Hare airport called to tell him it was seized and would be destroyed.

The $100 import exemption also doesn’t include any machine gun parts.

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An import permit is easy to do and they are free. All you do is register on the ATF E-Forms site https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/ Then fill out and submit a Form 6 “Application and Permit for Importation of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War”. https://www.atf.gov/file/61566/download

The last one I did came back approved in 18 days. I emailed a copy to the seller who attached a copy to the package along with the billing slip. The package was on my doorstep four or five days later.

Military firearms and MG parts are importable if you are a licensed importer.

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Originally Posted by l1a1 breakdown

It was waiting for me at me destination as expected, just thought I would share the story of its journey for smiles. I was astonished at the reaction of the Brit general public to R,G, F and W words throughout my whole trip - things have changed :/

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Yes - it's not something to be mentioned in polite (ie normal) society. Almost everyone I know doesn't know I shoot because they'd simply think I was crazy.

You're lucky the police didn't seal off the airport and call in the bomb disposal squad - such is the over-reaction normal in the authorities here to anything firearm related being 'concealed' or just 'discovered'.

And Brian Dick's entirely correct - it's a bit rich to have strict rules and embargoes on military scopes etc when they're happy to put modern weapons in the hands of ... er ... rascals and naughty regimes.

I had a very similar experience to l1a1 breakdown at Glasgow Airport a few years ago with a jar of Famous Grouse Marmalade, yes marmalade, which I had inadvertently put in my hand luggage but which I should have put in my hold luggage! After a bit of verbal toing and throwing between me and a security supervisor and all my belongings gone through with a fine tooth comb they confiscated it as a security risk. What they thought I may do with a jar of marmalade on a plane that was so risky I don't know?

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

a jar of marmalade

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That's sad too, I'll bet you had your mouth all set for it come next breakfast...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'll bet you had your mouth all set for it come next breakfast...

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Good chance they did too, and the only part that made the scrap bin was the empty jar.

Was it loaded? (a loaded 32 scope can be lethal!)

Its going on my 1945 No4T which I had featured in a restoration thread around 2 years ago - per the advise given then, save the pennies get a real one! Pictures will be up of the pair when I get some bench time :)

Not so much luck on the import to USA Brian - I was an ITAR officer for one of my previous companies and am still fairly well informed. I am am open mouthed at the reinterpretation and enforcement for small time and private operations and to cover anything but current controlled technology.. I do think that it could be stop laundered flow of equipment around the globe to be potentially used against UN troops etc - this one is going to a farm in PA though.

We must be becoming more of a risk / irresponsible if we cant even say "rifle" when prompted by an authority. Then again the average British public has not had the ability to even hunt for 600 years so firearms are only really in the news.

Like BARs SMLE it was not loaded - its currently struggling to focus its grat with its ageing grease..

Now a full jar of marmalade would pose a significant head trauma, better be digested by the security team.

Having been stateside for 16 years, my brother and I have added all kinds of interesting items to our baggage going back and forth over the years....rare antique engine parts, empty dry gas cans, headlight glass, a kitchen pot rack - were also always just within our duty free limits each time - I have some nice whiskey to last another while now :)

When the marmalade was taken off me the lady said that "It Will Now Be Destroyed" as if it was something highly dangerous and likely to cause something catastrophic to happen. She then said that I may, if I wish, retain the tissue paper in which it was wrapped- I nearly told her where to stick it! It's funny how times have changed; I remember flying back from Dubia in the late 1970s and bringing back a Kukuri type Knife in my hand luggage which I had purchased as a souvenir. Security saw it when my bag was searched but were not in any way concerned about it going into the cabin.

Well, times really HAVE changed. Whenever I take a peek at the other passengers and see burkas and blokes in oriental garb, I´m reassured at the thought that everything that could possibly be dangerous has been taken away. If the b*ggers left their own countries to avoid civil war etc, why can´t they be grateful for the peace and security provided by civilised countries.

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Originally Posted by l1a1 breakdown

Then again the average British public has not had the ability to even hunt for 600 years

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Having lived in the states on assignment from time to time, I really should not be surprised by rubbish like this.

A friend of mine had to return a Leupold scope to the U.S. from Canada for repair last year and he made the mistake of writing RIFLE SCOPE on the package. It was returned to him unsent as security wouldn't allow it to be sent airmail. He repackaged it and marked it optical device and it went no problem. If the OP had said his scope was a surveying instrument or telescope the know nothings at security would never have known it was for an "evil" rifle. Seems to me with all the hysteria about security and the Gestapo tactics used at the airports the terrorists have already won. My wife has a pair of 1.5 inch long(including the handles) pair of cuticle scissors seized before a domestic flight here in Canada. You might have been able to poke someone in the eye with them but you can do that with a finger as well.

A hint for next time use the term Wildlife Observation Device. I came out of London with several pounds of Enfield gear, L42 magazines from a Bisley fair and a Signals scope that drew some attention just after 9/11. Getting in was no problem and I had a few bits of hardware to trade. There was just a phone at the customs counter and a sign stating the if I had contraband I was to pick up the receive and someone would assist me.

WOD if you prefer. :thup:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bsk01ghi-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2d8d18a6-1.jpg

Can you give us a closer look at the wildlife in the second pic MJI. My WOD won't quite focus clearly in on the remarkable specimen

Sure

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4c3af0f8-1.jpg

There were TWO birds in that photo? Every day a school day.

You blokes do make me chuckle............ Thanks for the laugh this bright and Sunny Saturday in Oxfordshire MJ and Gary!

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Originally Posted by gsimmons

There were TWO birds in that photo? Every day a school day.

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You win the math quiz prize.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...aol1o5in-1.jpg

Why Thank you[emoji3]