Appreciating the size of a "Really Big Gun" -- 18" of Raw Muscle

If you've had to rebarrel a Springfield, Enfield, or M-1, you know it takes planning, technical expertise, and some tender loving care.

But moving the barrel on a battleship is a whole other matter. My neighbor went on a midshipman cruise to England and Spain aboard the USS New Jersey, one of the four Arizona class battle wagons (New Jersey, Arizona, Missouri and Wisconsin)

"We fired six salvos from each of these 18" monsters. Quite an experience!" he exclaimed, and sent me this post of the Gun Barrels Memorial.

"You can appreciate the size of these Guns by the Equipment required to move them. You don't think the barrels are that big when they were on the battleship, but when you see them hauled down the road you really see how huge they are."

http://www.youtube.com/embed/0dFIZX_RXuU

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

USS New Jersey, one of the four Arizona class battle wagons (New Jersey, Arizona, Missouri and Wisconsin)

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Arizona class? No such thing is there? The New Jersey and her sisters(6 in all) are Iowa class.
The U.S.S. Arizona was a Pennsylvania class, commissioned in 1916.
Never heard of any U.S. Battleships having 18'' main guns, 16'' is the largest I can reference to.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

The New Jersey and her sisters(6 in all) are Iowa class.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

16'' is the largest

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That's right, here's the rest...according to Wiki... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_Jersey_(BB-62)

AFAIK the Japanese hold the record for the largest caliber naval guns ever fitted to a ship. The battleship Yamato and her sister Musashi each had nine 18.1 inch main guns.

I have wondered for years whether there's still machinery capable of making new 16" rifled barrels. Would have to guess the Japanese equipment is long gone.

Good question. Been a while since I studied up one Iowa class BB's but IIRC the Mk.7 gun barrels weren't a one piece deal. They had a liner that was replaced once shot out. Due to the type propellant used during WWII barrel life was only 290 rounds. One good pre-invasion shore bombardment and off they went to Pearl for new liners I reckon.

The New Jersey is docked in Camden, NJ right across the Delaware river from Philly. Been on her four times now and every time I'm amazed. My favorite part is you climb up into the turret fire control room which isn't that big and can look down on the loading room. The helm is inside an armored bridge with steel something like 2 1/2' thick. The poor helmsmen only has a compass to steer by no view outside. Since my last visit they have opened the handling room on one of the turrets and visitors go through the motions of a mock loading and firing. An excuse for another visit.
One thing that you don't realize until you've been on her is the steep uphill angle of the deck at the bow. I always thought BB's where flat in that area. I could go on and on there's so much..
If your from the area and haven't been your missing out!!

Mates, you are absolutely correct. I posted the material, taking the material as it was sent -- never should have posted it without checking the facts, which didn't sound quite right (long day and an international flight must have fuzzed my old brain, and my neighbor is getting along in the years.). Sorry for the misstep.

Great observations about firing a salvo from a battleship. The shock wave from a salvo was so strong it would rip the skin off sailors on deck. A big difference from the 5" guns we had on our destroyer (now known as a frigate).

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

They had a liner that was replaced once shot out.

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You can see the liner when looking from the muzzle...

I have been on the Wisconsin and I will say that is a massive ship. It was pretty cool especially considering that ship was left in the last condition it was used in (i.e. Gulf War 1). On the side of the guns it had the name of I am guessing some Iraqi cities and a little shell beside them, likely for each shell fired. Most didn't have more than one shell.

The Wisconsin and Iowa hold the distinction of being the last BB's in commission in the world, being stricken from the NVR fairly recently in March 2006.
The only battleships ever built(AFAIK) that out classed the Iowa's in terms of armor and firepower were the two Japanese super battleships Yamato and Musashi. But not enough to make a real difference had it ever come down to a slugfest between the two classes. The Iowa's had superior fire control systems and even though their 16''/50 caliber Mk.7 main guns and shells were 25% lighter than the Jap 18.1 inchers they still had nearly equal armor penetrating capabilities.
The U.S. Mk.8 AP shell weighed in at 2700lbs and was propelled by a 660lb powder charge to a MV of 2500fps with a range of 24 miles and was capable of penetrating 20-21'' of armor at 20,000 yards, more than enough to defeat the Yamato and Musashi's 16'' belt plates. Yamato class turrets were a tougher nut to crack though having a side armor thickness of 25 1/2''.
The U.S HC Mk.13 shells weighed 1900lbs and were nothing short of awesome. They were capable of making craters 50' wide by 20' deep. During the Vietnam War they were used on occasion to create helicopter landing zones in the jungle. One Mk.13 shell fired into the jungle would make a LZ 200 yards in diameter and defoliate the trees for a further 300 yards beyond that. It almost makes you feel sorry for the poor bastards unlucky enough to be on the receiving end don't it?

The navy has many 16" gun tubes and barrels left from those not used in the building of cancelled battleships in WWII. Back in 2011 there were 15 each 16" gun barrels up for surplus sale. They had to be demiled per navy spec on site. They were Mark 7s....

Attachment 64235Attachment 64236

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Originally Posted by Tom in N.J.

16" gun barrels up for surplus sale.

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Am I reading the barrel label correctly? It seems to indicate the barrel weighs 237, 175 lbs -- no wonder they were called "heavy guns."

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

Am I reading the barrel label correctly?

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Yep, you sure are. And that's sans the breech. With the breech it weighed about 268,000lbs.

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Originally Posted by vintage hunter

With the breech it weighed about 268,000lbs.

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So, for 3 of them per turret, that's over 3/4 million pounds, plus the mounting platforms and magazine feed system, plus heavily armoured turrets -- over 1 million pounds per 3-barreled turret. And she had three 3-barreled turrets. Plus twenty 5inch 38s, and multiple batteries of Anti-Aircraft guns. It's just hard to fathom the fire-power amassed in such a small space. Was there any weaponry as powerful in such a concentrated location? ( A nuclear submarine with nuclear warheads is the only thing that comes to mind.)

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

Was there any weaponry as powerful in such a concentrated location?

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A B-52 armed with a nuke. The Iowa's had nuclear capabilities also from the 50's on in the form of a 1900lb Mk.23 nuclear shell was loaded with a 20 kiloton warhead.

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Originally Posted by Tom in N.J.

The navy has many 16" gun tubes and barrels left from those not used in the building of cancelled battleships in WWII. Back in 2011 there were 15 each 16" gun barrels up for surplus sale. They had to be demiled per navy spec on site. They were Mark 7s....

Attachment 64235Attachment 64236

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Not exactly road transportable "as is" were they?

"Not exactly road transportable "as is" were they?"


Don't think I'll try lugging one of those to the range. It would take a lifetime's supply of powder to get off just one shot...

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Originally Posted by Seaspriter

237, 175 lbs

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That's three Tractor Trailers PER barrel loaded to their absolute maximum legal road weight. Not cheap to move after you bought it!!!

What a great memorial. We've got the BB-64 Wisconsin here in my area and she's in great shape. Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, VA, still has its 350-ton hammerhead crane that was installed in 1940 specifically to install and remove battleship turret assemblies as a unit. Get a peek at this:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Norfolk_-1.jpg

Obviously it towers over the waterfront and has become a symbol of the area. The problem is that the ground beneath the crane isn't as stable as it once was. The Navy has discussed removing it but taking it down would carry with it a tremendous cost so they are trying to figure out next moves.

That's DDG-3, John King, a Charles F. Addams-class guided missile destroyer tied up in front of the crane. She was decommissioned in 1990 so that would give you a time frame for the picture.

For scale, look at the door and stairs on the butt end of the counter weight. The size of this thing is hard to judge until you are right underneath.

Bob

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Originally Posted by WarPig1976

That's three Tractor Trailers PER barrel

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So, I guess since these would be intended for scrap material, they'd be cut in situ and pieced out? Smaller is better? That would take some torch work. Lots of gas to burn through those bad boys.

I wasn't thinking!! Forgot to figure in the weight of the truck and flatbed which come in around 35,000lbs. Total weight can't be more then 80,000 so chunks regardless of size "as long as it fits on the flatbed" can't weigh more then 45,000. That's SIX loads per at a minimum!!! Plus the crane rental, cutting gas, labour, hope you can get 'em cheap!!!

The navy also furnished the army with at least 47 16" gun barrels for use in building M1919 16" coastal defense guns. Latter models, Mark 2, and Mark 3, also used these barrels. I don't know how they did it , but two of these monsters were installed in Battery Lewis up on top of the hill in Atlantic Highlands, NJ overlooking the entrance to NY harbor.. All, but one MK 3, were destroyed after WWII. It now is on display at Aberdeen, MD.

Attachment 64269

IAA forum related topic -

International Ammunition Association {iaaforum.org} - View topic - WW2 Iowa Class Battleship 16 Gun Barrel Slice


ATB Kevin

I thought the WWII originals were L-5's , I posted facts on the Mushashi and Yamato a little while ago but just as a quick look at a turret they each weighed 2,774 tonnes with ammunition, the 18.1" A.P projectile could be fired out to a range of 42,050m at parabolic height of 11,900m at a range of 20,000m the A.P could penetrate 566mm of horizontal plate.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

2,774 tonnes

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To put this size in perspective, my father served aboard a WWII Sumner Class Destroyer http://www.destroyerhistory.org/sumn...s/sumnerclass/ that weighed in at 2200 tons. It came loaded with three twin batteries of 5" 38 guns. His an entire ship ( http://destroyerhistory.org/sumner-g...ssharryfbauer/ ) was out-weighed by one turret on a battleship.

The navy got rid of the barrels to ensure the Battleships never came back to service again. Up until a few years ago the navy was required to hold on to this stuff. Several of the barrels have gone to museums. Cape Henlopen Delaware park recieved one.

Rick

At the Air Firce museum in Dayton, Ohio, they have a representation of one of the bunker buster bombs they made for the first Gulf war. It was a gun barrel, IIRC, an 8", filled with explosive, a hardened tip, booster to drive it further into the earth, and the guided tail seation.


So old gun barrels serve still!