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In the 1980s we were using .22 conversions of the No4 rifle for target practice in the Army Cadets. I remember that these rifles had the fore-end woodwork cut short similar to the No5 rifle and the foresight replaced. There was also a blanking plate over where the magazine would have been. Did these rifles have any form of official designation and were they converted to a standard pattern?
Think your referring to the No 8
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...92835fcb-1.jpg
I had two of those so far back no one knew what they were. I used it against the inter-company small bore shoots when the others were using C#7s. Always got exceptionally good scores and they never did wake up to why. Wish I had one now...two actually, I could sell one for big money and still have the other.
Yep the N.8 but although based on No.4/5 component parts they were not conversions but rather built from the ground up as training rifles.
BTW our government is about to scrap the remaining rifles on charge and we (British shooters and collectors) will NOT be allowed to buy one. The government would rather waste taxpayers money!
NOW is the time to write to your MP. Stress that they are not "weapons of war" but rather single-shot .22 target rifles similar to those used in hundreds of small-bore clubs around the country with no problems whatsoever.
Thanks for posting the picture, bigduke6, it looks familiar. I'm remembering back 35 years or so ago; I'm not certain about the rear sight but everything else looks just as I remember it. I remember there was a piece of metal brazed into the receiver where the magazine aperture would have been which you could see when the bolt was opened. This was, probably, what made me think that they were conversions of No4 rifles. I remember that they were lovely rifles to shoot and I always seemed to get reasonably good groupings with the rifles. Judging from what people have said over the last few years the U.K. government must have scrapped thousands and thousands of weapons, of historical interest, in recent years and got next to nothing for them in scrap metal value when they could have been sold to reputable dealers for a significant amount of money. Whoever thought up this ridiculous policy?
Without getting political totally agree, but I was recently in a room that belongs to the MOD that had a mixture of Sub Machine guns, Machine Guns, Assault rifles and around 100 pistols of various types......some stretch back to WW1, all destined for the chop I,m told, as the MOD are not the original owners of some of them and believe that by destroying them all, they will never fall in the hands of the criminal.
It seems today the main concern is if they did sell on to an appropriate dealer and such a weapon was used in an unlawful manner then it could and would come back to them so the chop is the only way to go.
As has been said, sounds like a number 8 but with Enfield's you never know-some unit could have had conversions some her in the world.
I love my no8, its only second to my no9 in my affections-but the 8 is by far the better target rifle, would like to get a second to fit with ph target sights
I wonder where they would have got them?Quote:
Originally Posted by Res
The only No8 rifles currently being disposed of are those ready for scrap due to lack of spare parts or simply worn out as in the normal course of events. There are reasonable stockpiles of No8's for those units, school CCF's and Army/Navy/RAF Cadets who still use these rifles as part of their training systems. And there are plenty who still use them in their Country Life shooting competitions.
They are still maintained and while no spare parts are being manufactured new, they will be maintained while stocks of spare parts are available by cannibalisation and existing stockpiles of spares and rifles are held.
As informed today by the equipment manager. Thanks Taff!
However Peter the MoD has/will be asking for tenders for a replacement for the No.8 in the near future. Hence the remaining stock will be up for grabs soon.
In the cadets in teh early 1980s we had No. 2 rifles in .22 LR caliber. no fancy schmancy No.8s with aperture sights for us.
The No8 replacement programme has been running since the Cadets got the L98A1......... then the old original sub calibre kits.......... then the L98A2........ and the modified sub cal kit. So 'soon' won't be anytime 'soon' as you and I understand the term I feel!
The BEST way to prod the disposal authority is through the NSRA or the NRA, both QUANGO's (oh yes they are......) or a well established dealership like Fultons who have all the necessary credentials behind them. But always worth bearing in mind that what the Army and Armourers call perfectly serviceable, the proof house doesn't*. AND there is no crown immunity now and the rifles really at the end of their lives.
*We allow 3 bulges on condition that it doesn't affect accuracy (and m/v?) while the PH won't accept any
But the Government is still exempt from the Gun Barrel Proof Acts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Yes, that puzzled me too but as they don't have their own proof regeime they send them off for commercial proof at great and totally unnecessary expense......... I was doing a trial on a bit of US kit and............ anyway!
What! A rifle that is younger than I am at the end of its life! Surely not. I am prepared to admit that my 1804 musket is not quite mint, but a No.8 is only 60 odd years old. I would term that "nicely matured".Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
But it probably depends on how you treat them:
The thing about the MOD being concerned about if they were to sell weapons to reputable U.K. dealers they may get sold onto criminals to use for unlawful purposes doesn't really make sense to me. U.K. dealers are purchasing weapons all the time from other sources other than the MOD and a criminal who decides to purchase a weapon for unlawful purposes is not likely, in my opinion, to be too bothered on where the dealer sources it from. No reputable U.K. dealer that I know of would ever supply a weapon to anyone who they believed may use it for any unlawful purposes. All the reputable, well known U.K. dealers that I have ever dealt with over the years have always been as straight as a Die and conducted their business in a very straight-forward business like and lawful manner. One very well known dealer told me that he believed the reason was that if the press got hold of the story that the MOD were selling weapons to U.K. dealers they would have a field-day.
It's nothing to do with that Flying 10! It's the UN stranglehold over government weapons sales.
I know this UN thing (and the UN in general if you ask me...) is all a bit silly and stupid and all that - but I'm sure a quick read through the local news might prick your little balloon regarding weapons that have been 'diverted' by one or two rascals in the past
Has the U.N. banned the sale of surplus weapons by governments into the civilian market, then Peter? U.K. dealers are still importing weapons from over-seas into the U.K. for sale into the U.K. collectors market.
I don't know the ins and outs of how the UN works. It is a bit like the EU or off street parking I suppose where there are sets of rules, regulations and red tape by the bucket-load but, alas, non enforceable except by those who wish to abide by the rules, regs and red tape. India, China and one or two others are members of the UN club and they seem quite happy to sell on. So is Britain and we don't unless it's govt to govt or off-shore.
I do know first hand that the UN imposed an Arms embargo into Bosnia H/G et al and..............
I think that it is highly unlikely that the UK government will sell the last No8's they have, people use the New Zealand sell off as a bench mark but I think that what was done here would not work in the UK.
The NZ government had already started to destroy their No8 rifles only 285 rifles were sold at the govt auction out of 2000 odd rifles (I have spoken to a NZAF armourer who had cut up more than a few).
A lot of lobbying was done too the NZ govt at the time to save these historically important and non threatening rifles which was successful. The main angle was that they are collectors pieces and are part of NZ's military history and should be preserved.
The NZ govt made the decision to sell the remaining No8's along with a small number of No9's and DP rifles at a public auction, because of the lobbying they were sold as collectors pieces and limited the buying at the auction to only one type of rifle per person, so 285 No8's went to 285 individuals (I believe that clubs could have purchased 2 of each kind at the time if they had registered prior to the auction), this was done to stop bulk buying by Individuals and gun dealers. This way they could control the release of them in a fair way making sure that collectors would be the ones that purchased them at a reasonable price ($250-$450NZd)
Remember NZ has a small population and a small but strong firearm/collecting community and that there was only 285 rifles, there for this was logistically easy to sell them off to Individuals/collectors.
I guess the UK has a lot more than 285 No8's and too follow how NZ sold their No8's off, trying to run a auction with a lot more rifles selling only one to each person would be logistically difficult.
We live in hope that they may find away to sell them off without dealers making large amounts of money, but it can be done NZ is a member of the UN as well.
If not the No8 will be a very rare rifle indeed.
It doesn't make sense to anyone else. (It has been their excuse in the past, BTW. e.g all those Argentine captures.) What criminal in his/her right mind would want a No.8!Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
I'm sure there was a theft of several No8's up my way from an ACF, will try and find the details. Maybe a good rifle for a hit man though......Quote:
Originally Posted by Beerhunter
As regards to post 16 and 17, In post #6 I,m not talking of weapons that are current or past issue (although there was a few Brens in the collection) these are weapons that were given, accumulated or passed on for Instruction purposes AFAIK.
Most are all live but as they are held at a training establishment soon to be moved, someone has quoted that as they are not run of the mill Military Firearms and not current in the training, a section 5 FAC should or would need to be applied for ??? I don't know the inns and outs but it was what I was told by the Civilian Instructor staff.
Must admit It was nice just handling a few including an MP40, M3 (grease gun), various Thompsons etc as for Pistols the world was your oyster, just a shame if they do go for the chop.... lot of them could be held on Sec 7.1 and 7.3.....