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1961 Enfield
1961 BSA
1959 Enfield (ex war reserve)
1959 Enfield (ex war reserve)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t4gkgbhy-1.jpg
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1961 Enfield
1961 BSA
1959 Enfield (ex war reserve)
1959 Enfield (ex war reserve)
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...t4gkgbhy-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3krgjzth-1.jpg
As ever, outstanding examples Kevin, you must have the finest collection of Inch pattern rifles and accessories in public ownership anywhere ... Never seen a better one .. Have you ever managed to add a Canadian C1?
My own meagre collection has been a labour of love to assemble over the last five years.
Enfield 1962 (live)
Lithgow 1964 ex NZ (live)
BSA L1A1 Cutaway
Ex Singapore contract Lithgow (deactivated)
Ex Malaysian contract Lithgow (deactivated)
Plus numerous L2A1/L2A2 SUIT's and other bits and bobs...
I don't have a C1 rifle, but I do have a late production C1A1 rifle. You have done well for 5 years, mines taken over 27 years to scrape together and there is still things I have to track down or have still yet to discover.
Well done on the C1A1 Kevin, mind me asking how you came across her. I have been trying to get hold of a C1 kit to complete my Inch pattern live rifles .... but its a no go here in the UK unfortunately.
The C1A1 came out of Canada, its one of the ex OPP rifles that were sold out Canada and then imported back into Canada. They went via the UK. It was a similar situation that happened here in the mid nineties, the government wouldn't sell the weapons to collectors within New Zealand so they were sold to an overseas 'company' and then some were imported back into New Zealand because collectors were legally allowed to import the weapons. All this did was double the price of the Rifle/MG/SMG to the collector due to the extra shipping and put BNP markings all over it.
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1961 Enfield L1A1 Rifle
Fitted with Wood Furniture, L1A1 Bayonet and Khaki Web Sling.
1961 BSA L1A1 Rifle
Fitted with Laminated Handguards, L1A3 (short fuller) Bayonet, L2A1 SUIT sight with Pattn 72 SUIT Sight Pouch and Khaki Web Sling.
1959 Enfield L1A1 Rifle
Fitted with Plastics, L1A4 Bayonet, L1A1 IWS Scope, L7A2 GPMG Bi-pod and Green Nylon Sling.
1959 Enfield L1A1 Rifle
Fitted with Plastics, Arctic Butt Stock, Rubber Muzzle Cover, Lanyard, Handguard Band, Foresight Cover, L2A2 SUIT Sight, Pattn 58 SUIT Sight Pouch and Nylon 'Army' Arctic Sling.
The only C1A1 rifles I know of in the UK are in the Leeds based pattern room collection and the examples Peter eluded to in the Warminster collection. There must be others I would guess, but never seen or heard of any avalable to the public either live or deactivated.
Even in Canada they only seem to exist as a handful of deactivated or a tiny number of Grandfatherd examples. Have they all been destroyed?
Getting weapons out of Canada was extremely difficult, even Govt. to Govt. We had a couple of C1's at Warminster and asked the Cdn Dept of Defence for a Canadian Sterling SMG which was agreed. What a palava! Even for us it was only ever on 'loan' and accountable annually..... I mean!
I can't understand it either especially when you hear that bodies/master component were available for No4 rifles, Brg pistols (and so presumably the Bren et-al too) at Cdn Base workshops as a repair item. So were they available as spare parts for the C1's? Or only No4's
Well, I know some of the people who chopped up the C1 FN-FAL in the early 2000s. Truly sad, the one guy was telling me how they still had some NOS in the box from 1960 and they were just taken out of the box, wood taken off for burning and the metal chopped with a torch.
There are only two legal sources the C1 FN-FAL could have come from that I am aware of. One being the ex-OPP rifles, the other was back when the C1 was being made they offered some for sale to members of the DCRA so they could buy them for service rifle competitions. From what I understand very few took up the offer, as the catalog I saw it in advertised show it as 150 or 160$ back then (in comparison to 10$ Lee Enfields).
Yes, it's true that only a handful of FN C1s (A1) exist out in the civilian market. Most were bought by DCRA members way back when that was the thing. Some were sold by the OPP when they changed rifles, but most were destroyed when they were no longer required in war reserve...just in time for the war... There's the odd one deactivated, but most are Aussie or UK...the live ones too.
When the FNs were retired from active Canadian service, something like 50,000 rifles were overhauled by Colt Canada and put into war reserve. From which they went straight to the chopper.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I understand there are a *very* small handful of legitimate Canadian-made C1/C1A1s in the States, but the emphasis is on "very". And since they would have "walked" across the border and were probably never registered as machine guns (stupid auto-sear!), it's a safe bet they stay well out of sight.
Most of the C1s and C2s in the States are the result of literal years of searching for Canadian parts to build on a legal US made receiver. Very few parts kits made it over here, all parts are expensive, and some items, such as Longbranch-made barrels and many C2 parts, are made of unobtainium at this point.
---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------
I've been told that rifles remaining in stock at Longbranch Arsenal/CAL were sold off along with the plant machinery and other assets when the Arsenal was closed in 1976.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
The parts were apparently bought by the pound as scrap by Blake Stevens...and when Diemaco was doing the refurbishment for war reserve, he sold the parts back at unit price...so I was told...Warren might know more about that.
I've wondered if that refurbishment program is why Canadian barrels are basically nonexistent...unless they too were buying barrels and other parts from Australia in later years.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Its such a shame, the C1A1 is a very nice looking rifle, I would love to have added one to my inch pattern collection, but that's just an unachievable pipe dream now. When looking into the possibility of procuring an C1A1 parts kit and bringing it to the UK earlier this year, I contacted a number of Canadian dealers ... more than one said, what's a C1?? ... sums it up really, the forgotten rifle!
I tried to locate a deactivated C1A1 for my collection, as a fall back position, that too was a no go, no one imported any to the UK..
Never mind, new project, I am going to attempt to build a straight pull L2A1 lookalike (it will have to be based on a Lithgow L1A1 receiver kit though) as utilising an L2 receiver (even if you could find one) would be a step to far here in the UK, even though the only difference is the bloody markings, because of our ridiculous laws here.
I have an old heavy Enfield 7.62 target barrel tucked away at my RFD, that has enough meat on it to be adjusted to the correct profile, Lithgow receiver, TMH and bolt kit and FE isn't a problem, got the straight 30 mag, just need the L2 gas block, retaining ring and bipod legs to start the build.
Surely there will be a heavy L2 barrel somewhere in the US that can be exported here instead of the palava of turning one down from scratch.
Engraving your body to L2A1 spec shouldn't be a problem either
Hi Peter,
An original L2 barrel is a no go, as its ported, again a step to far, its a delicate balancing act building these things to Sec1 in the UK!
Burnt at the post by an angry pinch folk wielding mob from the Home Office for using that unfortunately!
That's funny....... The CAM rifle uses a blanked off ported M-16 barrel. Just looked up the bore and it's still there as we speak. It can't be both illegal AND legal surely...........
I built C1A1 clone in the early 1990's using one of the very first Entreprise Arms receivers and a new Australian barrel. I had sets of new wood and all the small parts at that time. I still have it and it's a lovely rifle that shoots extremely well. I've only heard tell of one original C1A1 that found it's way down from the Great White North but I never saw it. It used to reside in Atlanta. I had several of the C2 barrels and couldn't give them away at the time along with the walnut bipod/handguards.
There you go Clarkie..... They're out there!
Afternoon all,
I had to look up the CAM rifle Peter, interesting hybrid SP beast indeed, I guess it hails from a time when the first straight pull AR15's also came to these shores too, they were converted by simply crimping the gas line!
The pioneer post semi auto ban days!
If you tried making/importing anything now with a ported barrel they would have your guts for garters!
Here in the UK, it is a particular issue when mated with a "potentially semi automatic" receiver like the L1A1.
These rifle builds receive very close attention from the Home Office these days and they have mandated a clear set of rules for the builds.
To comply with Sec1, the rifle must be built up from a parts kit (with a clear paper trail proving that), the build must utilise a new un-ported barrel and modifications made to ensure it can't easily be made to operate as an semi/automatic firearm, ie, de-activated gas block, no gas tube and piston etc.
So, no choice but to machine the Enfield barrel I'm afraid.
Inch-pattern heavy barrels are probably right behind Longbranch barrels for rarity now, here in the States...many of the guys I know of with L2s or C2s either had them with their parts kits (only L2s there, far as I know), or they were turned down from barrel blanks or metric FALO barrels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
My FN/SLR builder told me that he and the late Pat Jones had been working on a plan to make new "unobtainium" parts (like barrels and bipod barrel blocks) for L2s and C2s. Pat had original parts to either copy or modify, while my builder had the machine shop skills at hand. Sadly, Pat's untimely demise put an end to that, at least for now.
I am just going by what I was told by the person doing the chopping. He said they were taking them out of the box still in the grease and chopping them up, whether they were the result of a refurbishment program or NOS I am not sure, but NOS wouldn't surprise me as we were taking NOS Hi-Powers from 1945 out of the grease for Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by enbloc8
Either one wouldn't surprise me...in the 90s I recall hearing of late production M1 Garands that were found still wrapped in grease paper in US Army stock (though those went to a better fate, being auctioned for the CMP instead of chopped).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglelord17
Likewise, I've been told that there were brand new L1A1s on the rack at Lithgow Arsenal, that were cut into parts kits when Lithgow was bought out lock, stock and barrel in the early 90s.