Not mine but thought it might tempt someone - search for item no. 321835621084
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Not mine but thought it might tempt someone - search for item no. 321835621084
I saw that too. I'm sure that most don't realise that these things aren't a sight as such but a means of measuring an angle of deflection - albeit a rare one! I don't think that the sight is as rare as the gun aiming posts (the GAP's). I saw a box of these rare beasts, early war-time ones at that, and the owner didn't realise what he had!
The notion that a Bren could be all things to all men was short lived. The overhead and indirect fire role was soon put back where it belonged. To the big boys with their Vickers and 3" mortars and the Bren was left to do what it did best. A section machine gun - at which it excelled.
Aren't those the little device with a prism inside? Just gives you a white triangle for aligning, keep both eyes open and line it up? It should have leveling bubbles and the stakes as Peter stated...just to give you some direction with the guns. Kind of a non-magnetic compass...
Peter, Are the GAP's the same as the Vickers' ones?
Yep Brian, GAP's were the same for the Vickers, Mortars and Bren. Rare as rocking horse manure if you've got any
You're right about the fixed line sight BAR. The leveling bubbles were to set the gun to horizontal (Calibrated using the sight clinometer first and.... and...... jeeeees!), set the elevation on the sight for the range from the trajectory scales booklet and elevate the gun to suit. No wonder the Vickers and Mortar crews did a 6 week course!
I learned JUST enough about indirect fire to be able to waffle a bit, not look tooooo stupid, nod and agree at all the right times and most importantly, look interested.
I took the mortar course when I was 17 so...I have a handle on indirect fire. Then there was the GPMG too. It's indirect fire was different...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The good thing was the C2 sight that worked for both bits of kit and as tough as old boots.
Our problem was simple. When we adopted the C6 (GPMG) and the mount group you recall so well, we needed to write the book for instruction on the indirect fire for this rig. The men at the time were headed up by one that disliked the Mortar people so none of the manipulations or parts names are the same. You should be able to have the MG and Mortar course sit together for the first 5 days and learn all the sight and indirect theory together...but noooo....not in MY army... Therefore we have some minor problems with that...starting with the fact that indirect fire for the GPMG is actually the old obscuration drill for the 1919A4. We had a Guards Offr on exchange to us and thought he was going to see the guns rock back to point at the sky when we spoke of indirect fire with the GPMG. I had to explain it to him.
Anyhoo...yes, the C2 sight...
Anybody need a set? :madsmile:
A set of what? Ah, yes....... Brian has some Bren GAP's! I'd put them on that auction site and see what they go for.
Hi, does anyone have a picture of what the Bren GAPs look like?
The only handy picture I can think of is in the Grand Old Lady Of No-Mans-Land by Dolf Goldsmith. They are in relation to the Vickers but the GAP's were the same. Rare as rocking horse shi........., er, manure
I would love to read that book, but it's hard to justify spending $500 + .
It is, but not for the Bren/Vickers. Looks like 81mm mortar but BAR will confirm. The Bren Vickers ones are as rare as sailors parachutes
Ok, got off my arse and looked at D Goldsmith, different post indeed. Hell of a set up with all the lamps and bells and whistles the old gun aiming post!
I had some of the lamps, made by Lucas if i remember correctly.
Yes, it's an aiming post, but no CDN from any time I saw. It's not a CDN 81 mortar...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I'll supply some pics of the Vickers/Bren GAP's in the days to come. I'm cleaning up a set.
Might be British or Oz folded down as I've just noticed the little extended foot thinggy for pushing the bottom section into the ground with your boot that we had
Ours just plain looked different.
Yes it's folded in two, has a little toggle and ferrule attachment in the middle. Found in Oz, I will do a few better pictures in the coming days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
No need for more pics Mike. It's the UK/Oz GAP for the C2 sight on the OHF/sustained fire GPMG kit and the 81mm mortar.
Also Used with the L16A2 or A1 81mm Mortar. Usually orange on one 'Flag' at the top. & green on the other. I have a pair with my ownQuote:
Originally Posted by mike1967
L16A1 O.M.L.
Our GPMG SF stakes were different too. Short wire affair with an "h" shape to them. Black and white painted and of course the Tri-Lux lights...
Morning BAR. These 'H' stakes you refer to. I THINK, they are from modified Tripwire Flare Kits?.....We have very Similar for the GPMG L7 SF Kit's in Brit MilQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Service.
Morning Tankie... These came through our system and I can't say where the idea came from. They're 14" or 16" tall and I never saw them before. We didn't use a tripwire stake...just attached to natural, mostly. These were a slightly hardened steel "Wire" about 1/4" or 3/8" thick. Like I say, they had a pointed foot and were a lower case "h" in shape... They worked fine, for classroom of course, we used a wood dowel set in a flat wood base. We had a QMSI on staff from Warminster in our SAIC school. A W2 I think if I recall, and when he returned to Warminster the promotion would be permanent...something like that. We had some good and some bad of course...nature of the beast. He was to keep us on line with training, one gun, one book. EDI and all that...much of our practices came from his suggestions I think...
Would be nice to know who your SASC WO2 was. He's probably still known or remembered at the HQ. We had a few got to Sigleton. QMSI Lorenzelli was one as was the great Steve Harrod.
Hard for me to remember their names. I remember a bit about all of them but the names escape. If I could I'm sure some of you would remember some of them. One of them was Lee I think. He was employed in Germany during the SA replacement trials in '75/'76. He was Scottish I think. Short man...5'5" sort of thing, dwarfish or elfen... The two you mention aren't familiar...
That era was very probably Danny Lee. They used to get around and their names appear on loads of paperwork.
Hiya Jim,
The SASC is the smallest Corps in the British Army. When I was at the School of Infantry (Now renamed the Land Warfare Centre) They were the Bain of my life there! :sos:
CONSTANTY coming into my Armourers Workshop to pick my Brains. On what ever technical detail they wanted to ferret out.
You see they write the Army User handbooks, used in service by All Arms.
And there is CONSTANT Competition amongst themselves to vie for a better Document Etc write up.
Because the Cops Is so small. Competition amongst themselves is fierce.
And with them it's all about promotion! :( The better a Technical Book/ point/ Review of a Publication. The Better ACR (Annual Confidential Report) They get, severely enhances their chances of promotion, Ouicker!......:dancingbanana:
There were one or two good ones. But most were only interested in self enhancement rank wise. To Me, they were a Pain in the Arse! :mad:
Peter of course, being more of a Diplomat & a 'H'officer & a Gentleman. Is far too Polite to stoop to my Level of 'Technical Discription' of these Fine 'Upstanding' (?) Members of their Corps!.......:cheers:
They were a bit of a pain where we were also. They had nothing to do with us overall, rankwise or militarily but they'd flap on about things. One assessed a class about GPMG and failed the instructor for his description on gas adjustment...saying there were 11 positions of gas adjustment, check the book. No Sir, we only have 6. Check the book. We too write the books, and that was another whole painful story. Most of us just wanted to get out of that camp...back to real life.
Phew..... I'm glad it was you two wot said that! Admittedly, they could be a tad pedantic but being the Engineering Officer type, I made it my business to advise the up and coming young thrusters that THEY were the instructors teachers and NOT the technical bods. As I know from experience, when it comes to technicalities, you can be NEARLY right but hopelessly wrong. If you need technical help, speak to the technical people - But all in all, they were a nice bunch!
The Technical publications people (Geoff Xxxxx etc etc) down the road would quickly pick up on cock-ups or suggestions for amendments/apparent mistakes and ask for tech advice. As did the EMER/AESP reviewers at Andover. Are there still any EMER's left Skippy or all AESP's now?
Another thing was...... No....... for another day!
We almost need to open a thread about this, I'd say we're effectively off topic now, and I have so much more on this wandering discussion...
Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
So, you're saying it's time to invoke Godwin's Law?? ;-))
-TomH
Gun Aiming Post, (GAP)
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Pretty funny...:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by TactAdv
That's neat Brian, never have I seen one of those. They look like a nightmare to stow in transit.
The Mk.III GAP was introduced in the LoC in 1937 and apparently served until 1968 or thereabouts. These came out of Canada in the 1990's but have no distinct manufacturer's markings present. Peter said they're identical to British ones. Maybe they are British manufacture. They are painted in both the early olive and later dark olive paint spanning decades of service!
---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:09 PM ----------
I know exactly what you mean about stowing them for transit. They're going to poke a hole in something for sure!
But as rare as rocking horse sh........, er........, manure!
I've got a funny feeling that the spiked bases fitted into wooden blocks in the canvas holdall that contained the lamp boxes. The lamp box had a shielded lamp, switch and leads powered by two 1.5 wax covered waterproof batteries, 1.5" x 1.5" x 4" tall. With + and - brass screw-on terminals on the top. Seems strange seeing the GAP's again!