Scoping a No.4

Hi Guys, my first post on here and I'd first of all like to say what a great forum this is. As a relatively new Enfield shooter (I own a SMLE and a No.4) and been shooting them for 2 years now, I've learned a lot from this site, so thanks.
My question is around whether or not there are any negative implications to scoping my No.4. It's a "bista" rifle, but shoots very well. A 1954 action from Fazakerley, new barrel, renumbered bolt, matching numbered wood but mismatched magazine.
I'm thinking of an Armalon base and a fixed power scope, probably a Weaver and obviously a repro cheek piece. Will doing this affect potential value? Is there any potential value in such a rifle? Obviously the mount is reversible so no issue there, but putting screw holes in what is a nice butt does worry me a bit.
I guess these repro cheek pieces need some fettling too do they?
My final query is about the colouring, my stock is a blonde, what experience do others have on stains etc to bring a colour match to the wood.
Thanks for your patience and looking forward to be told to man up and get on with it! :)

Welcome WB as it is a no tap mount won't affect the value my #4's are blondes but staining not really my thing.

On the other hand you could just save the money and spend it plus some on some repro parts and make yourself a good, passable and eminently useable No4T copy that'll be a zillion times more valuable than what you're proposing.

Screw holes in a nice butt......... Well screw the screws into a cheap crap replacement butt then! It's the length of a butt that affects your shooting - not the niceness!

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Welcome WB as it is a no tap mount won't affect the value my #4's are blondes but staining not really my thing.

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Thanks for the reply, I know what you mean about staining, for clarity, I did only mean the cheek piece, I'd be horrified at staining the whole thing too. I recently acquired a lovely SMLE from Roger Payne at a good price due to the previous owner varnishing the entire stock! Several hours of work later, it now looks like BSA intended it to!

---------- Post added at 08:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 AM ----------

Thanks Peter. You've really got me thinking now. I've had a look through previous threads on repro 4T's and to be honest, I'm struggling to see a UK source for the repro scopes. Clearly Numrich sell them in the States but don't ship to us. Can you point me in the right direction, or did you mean utilise a more modern perhaps older scope like a Pecar perhaps?

I didn't mention repro scopes in the article wot I writ about making a decent No4T conversion as I recall. In fact I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole although someone in the known world somewhere will have a good word to say about them. But, alas, not me.

Telescope; Just save TWICE and buy once. By that I mean save up and buy a totally flogged out heap of tat No32. Have it rebuilt - there are plenty of people who can do it, believe me - and use that. You could use any 1" tube that will fit until you come up with the real McCoy

Peter you are laying the door open again by saying- "there are plenty of people who can do it" ahh yes there are plenty of people who can fix it but there are very very few who can refurbish it to as new standard by the MoD and with that ENDE discusion:D

Nope Cinders...., deliberately NOT opening the door! Just telling it as I see the best way to make a repop No4T. And yes there are others out there, believe me. But at the same time I am not advertising myself by name or inference

Ah I see Peter! Thanks, I'd assumed.... fatal. You've got me on a mission now, once complete, I'll report back and don't worry I won't be chasing you for advice on repairs, I'm pretty sure I know a guy who can the work. Thanks again for the pointers, what a great forum this is.

Wainwrightblagger, I for one would support your "no gunsmithing" route, because it's fully reversible.
The only thing I would ask you to confirm before you start spending any money is this: "can your rifle shoot a tight group?"
If it cannot do so with iron sights, it will not with optical sights. The starting point for any 'scoping project is: a rifle with uncanny accuracy. If that condition is not fulfilled, all your efforts will be wasted. I speak from bitter experience / burnt fingers, and from seeing the fate of a lot of others' projects. People think a 'scope makes a rifle acurate. It does not - it just makes the target look bigger...
Rob

Good points well made Rob. Yes, my rifle can shoot well, better than my middle aged eyes will allow it to if I'm honest. As to uncanny accuracy, I leave that to my K31! :)
My reasons for considering a scope were simply to help me see what I'm pointing at over ranges above 200 yards. I find I really struggle with open sights beyond that, even with my specs on! I thought I'd keep the SMLE for short range fun and then use the No.4 for longer ranges.

Wainwrightbagger: One other potential approach is to go with a proper target sight (ie Parker Hale) that requires no permanent modification to your No. 4. The standard No. 4 "peep" has a 0.10 inch aperture and is not meant for serious target shooting. I have 3 scoped No. 4's but my best groups shot to date are still with my Parker Hale sighted '43 Longbranch which seems to be "uncannily accurate" (probably due to a pristine post-war 6 groove barrel). You might find you enjoy shooting with one of these target sights- certainly agrees with my 58 year old eyes.

Ridolpho

I think Ridolpho has a v good point about a target sight - the peephole eliminates all refractive errors from older eyes, the rule being to use an aperture just small enough that the sight picture does not darken. A 6-aperture sight is a good option , allowing one to rotate and compare the apertures, settling on the one-just-before the target darkens.
Or, if your K31 is a tack driver, I'd suggest 'scoping it with the Weaver you mention:
http://www.brownells.com/optics-moun...1666-6109.aspx

Rob

Thanks Ridolpho and Rob. The idea of the PH aperture sight is an excellent one. My drive towards scoping was simply to improve my longer range shooting with the No.4, just like I've done on my K31 Rob, and yes, with a Weaver K6. I use peeps on my Marlin .357 lever gun for exactly the same reason. Don't know why I didn't think of it before! That's what great about forums like this, it really helps the thought process!

Wainwrightbagger: Here's my Longbranch with PH5C. There seem to be a fair number of these sights out there- I've bought a couple from England. The front tunnel isn't necessary but it improves the sight picture a lot. Regards.

Ridolpho

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

Wainwrightbagger: Here's my Longbranch with PH5C. There seem to be a fair number of these sights out there- I've bought a couple from England. The front tunnel isn't necessary but it improves the sight picture a lot. Regards.

Ridolpho

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I also have a PH5C on a No4 mk1. I use the regular front sight and am very pleased with the accuracy.

Thanks again Ridolpho, the search is on! Thanks I'd also Scoobsean, see you're from Kalamazoo, I spent a day there back in 1996 when I worked in Chicago, wish I could remember the name of the great little bar that we went to that day, but for some reason my memories of Kalamazoo get a little foggy from that point onwards..... :)

Phil Rose usually has a selection of target sights for the No. 4, I can recommend him for your 1st port of call; PM me if you need his contact details.
Rob

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Originally Posted by Wainwrightbagger

Thanks again Ridolpho, the search is on! Thanks I'd also Scoobsean, see you're from Kalamazoo, I spent a day there back in 1996 when I worked in Chicago, wish I could remember the name of the great little bar that we went to that day, but for some reason my memories of Kalamazoo get a little foggy from that point onwards..... :)

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Wasn't the Mermaid was it?[emoji1] I think it had been razed by then.

Was it Bell's?

The Mermaid rings a bell. Seem to recall dark wood panelled walls with a large car park out front?

That doesn't sound familiar. I was there in 1989, only remember the girls on stage. [emoji3]

Crickey! You'd think I'd remember that! Must have had more to drink than I thought! Either that or I was in a different bar.

Attachment 65082

Here was my attempt using an Armalon one piece mount and Simmons Whitetail Classic 1.5-5x20 scope on my 1943 Faz No4 Mk 1 - worked well and was easily converted back to as-issued condition. (After getting original No4 T with No 32 Mk 1 scope - though zeroing the damn thing was and continues to be a lot more frustrating than the Simmons!! HXP v PPU challenges)