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Here for your perusal is my Lee-Metford 1895 Sparkbrook MKII* which will arrive next week. I'm looking for a cleaning rod should anyone know where to obtain one. It currently has the pull-through cleaner. I assume that this MKII* takes the .303 Smokeless rather than the black powder ammo.
Nice rifle, I always wanted one.
Any theories why the muzzle and piling swivel are v. rusted when the rest is v. good?
Muzzle's the same. Wonder if it was stored in a cloth lined case at some point for a few (dozen) years?
I've seen other rifles were the barrels were rusted near the muzzle like that one. I suspect that it's because the rifle was picked up by the barrel and stored up right in a closet or gun rack and over time the salt from the hand and fingers eventually caused the metal to pit. Especially if the rifle was stored in a humid area. Not sure about the swivel, possibly that was also handled at that time also, Ray
There was an individual that brought a rifle to me at one point that had the case so rusted to it that we had to cut the case away and then tear the bits of case off. It looked like this. There was another that had been stored in a garage between the wall and the pink wool insulation. It also had this effect. Anything that can hold moisture would do that. Just a salty hand? This seems a bit worse than that.
There have been batches of reproduction rods made from time to time. I have one, in the "white', somewhere here in the crypt. Whoever made it went to the trouble of closely approximating the original, "weird" Enfield threads at both ends.
Because they were removed on official instruction, GENUINE items are up there with hens' teeth and rocking-horse manure.
We have an older (older than me) ex weapons tech out in Alberta that locally produces these cleaning rods and brings them by the pail full to the Calgary show at Easter...I suppose one should attempt to find a way to locate him.
Maybe, maybe not. Not if handled a number of time over the years and stored in a fairly humid area. The damage is isolated to just that area so something came in contact only there that caused the rust. Over time, the salt and moisture from a hand can cause some pretty bad rust on metal. I had a 03 Springfield that had isolated rust like that I assumed was caused that way. Either that or the muzzle was sticking out of a case and exposed to moisture were the rest of the rifle wasn't or possibly blood came in contact with the metal there. Anyway, we'll never know. RayQuote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
One of my pet peeves that make me grit my teeth is watching people grab weapons by the barrel or exposed metal with their bare hands. I guess it stems from maintaining my Dad's collection as a youngster growing up directly on the Atlantic oceanfront in Florida where a fingerprint would become permanent in a matter of a few weeks if not wiped off and stainless steel screws would rust in two in a year when exposed outside. I'm still anal about it and walk around quietly behind people with an oily rag wiping things off! :madsmile:
I had a '94 Winchester carbine brought to me once that had a scab of deep rust at the muzzle beside the sight. I guess the hunter had poked an animal after it was down and not thought about it again. 20 years later...this was a major pit in an otherwise perfect finish. That took a minute to sort out. Another had blocked bushes with his hand as he went through and there were thorns in there. He took the rifle again by the balance and that's where the pits developed. Right where the blood was rubbed into the finish...
Blood leaves very distinctive pitting damage and will clean bluing off like naval jelly if left unattended. I have a '43 JP Sauer 98K with damage to what is an almost new condition rifle. The soldier to whom issued obviously didn't get very far.
I managed to get it all polished out and re-blued but it was a challenge. We had an folding stock AK...(Type 56) in Gagetown NB that had been picked up after the invasion of 1974. It had a nice coating of simple pinprick rust on one side from the soil it lay on and the other had the wormy lines of rust from the blood of it's owner. The whole affair had been long since scrubbed silver, but the rust pits remained. The barrel, was about perfect inside...
Chrome lined barrel!
Cleaning rods were withdrawn from issue in 1895. So it may not have had one. Later production( LE Mk1*) even had a nose cap with no hole for the rod.
Clearing rods (not cleaning) were withdrawn 1899 with the introduction of the Mk1* MLE
Sorry 5thBatt but the info I have is from Skennertons book that states that cleaning rods were withdrawn in 1895. Banned in 1899( MLE Mk1*). They went from cleaning rod to clearing rods when the pull through was issued.
Which of Ians books & the page number please, i have looked & can only find a date of 1889, the Mk1 MLE was introduced in Nov 1895 & it had the Clearing rod until the rod was withdrawn & the designation changed to Mk1* in 1899.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfieldshooter
Ok, found a reference to "Cleaning" rods being withdrawn in 1895 on page 448 TLE in the Technical Details chapter about the CLLM MkII, i think either a typo on the date or because he has used the term cleaning rod & not clearing rod, it might be referring to the earlier cleaning rod.
5th Batt. I Don't want to get into a p***ing contest with this . After all I am only a beginner at this (40yrs) and my 4th post.:surrender: Skennerton .303 Magazine Lee-Metford and Magazine Lee-Enfield.
Page16. and 22.
Number of posts means nothing to me & never look unless its pointed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfieldshooter
Welcome aboard.
An interesting point that could use clarification. It doesn't seem to make sense to abolish the rod only to bring it back with the next series of rifles and carbines (whatever its nomenclature) after that. The only mention of it in the source material that I have access to (LoCs) is the 1899 abolition of the clearing rods.
I dont have the book mentioned but I'm thinking after the change from cleaning to clearing rod (they are two different types of rods) the clearing rod could have been withdrawn/obsoleted in 1895 but the clearing rod carried over until it was withdrawn in 1899.
Really need to see that publication.
On page 22..."After May 1899 (per LoC §9700) clearing rods were abolished which is why few are found with MLM and MLE rifles and carbines today. Originally known as 'cleaning rods', when pull-throughs replaced the cleaning rods they were used for clearing the chamber, by joining two together."
Pretty clearly implies two terms for the same thing.
Different heads & different lengths 27.5 inch Cleaning vs 17.2 inch Clearing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrhead75
Yes different rods...but the nomenclature changed once the pull-through was introduced, not when the rod was shortened. LoC 7404, introducing the MLM MkII states: "...the clearing rod is shortened...etc."
The rifle arrives Thursday 17 Sept so I'll give a range report once I shoot it.
I have an 1894 all matching, unfortunately along the way it was sporterized, still has the volley sites attached. Any chance that anyone knows where one could get some furniture for these rifles?
Cool Vari we wait and see the results of your efforts at the range hope it all goes well for you I hope none of that gunk has gone into the crowns rifling, thought I would share some of my 303 Lee books the 2 jewels of these 4 books I suppose are The British Service Lee and the special maroon coloured presentation edition of a limited edition which is No.30 and signed by Ian.
Here is a good example of what blood will do to a finish if left on it. It's on a papered T-53 rifle brought back from Nam by a Marine Lt. It was given to him by the commander of a S Vietnam Marine unit for supporting them in a fire fight. The Lt sent it home as received and apparently it didn't get cleaned. You can see all the areas were the wounded enemy had handled it with blood on his hands. Blood can pit deep if left on and especially in a humid climate. The Lt. sent me this photo page of him and the rifle. He had been shot in the front of the helmet but the bullet after penetrating helmet glanced of the liner, RayQuote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
Upon doing a bit more research I found that this rifle at one time served with the Royal Navy as shown by the "N" naval ownership stamp and was upgraded to take high-velocity MKVII .303 ammo as shown by the "HV" stamp in front of the sight base.